[Peace-discuss] Fw: Curiouser and Curiouser - SPLC

Wed Apr 21 18:28:35 CDT 2010

I said that  they "are in many cases poor uneducated white males who many 
might  be consider to be "rednecks" and "hillbillies" in their behaviors, 
attitudes, and practices...."  I did not say that all were either poor, 
uneducated, or to be considered "rednecks" and "hillbillies;" nor did I 
suggest that there was a necessary association between poverty and 
education, on the one hand, and being a "redneck" or "hillbilly."  Being a 
"redneck" and/or "hillbilly" is a matter of one's cultural values. beliefs, 
and attitudes coupled with norms of  practice and styles of behavior and not 
necessarily a product of one's income or education per se, although many 
persons who are considered to be or who identify themselves as "rednecks" or 
"hillbillies" are poor and uneducated and seem to be proud of being 
ignorant.  What I did suggest was that *many might consider* (RIGHTLY OR 
WRONGLY) the poor and uneducated white males that identify or belong to 
militias to be "rednecks" and "hillbillies."

I am sure that everyone strives to become a "redneck" or "hillbilly" as a 
goal to achieve in ones life.  Being one is not bad in the sense that it 
labels those persons inherently bad  people, but being proud of being one 
and desiring not to remain identified with said label is bad in the sense 
that it defines said life styles and patterns of behavior as being perfect 
and not in need of any improvements or changes.

Nevertheless, no matter what way you want to read my comments, I could care 
less if you take offense at what I have said.  "If the floe shits, wear it"

As for your comments that "The people who I know that are on the list are 
often quite radical in their level of commitment but none of the ones I know 
are willing to resort to
violence to accomplish their means and quite frequently speak out against 
violence," I cannot speak to the specifics of these particular individuals. 
I am sure that their being on that list is controversial a is the placement 
of anyone on any list.  There is always disagreement as to if someone 
belongs on a list or not and what ranking they should have if they are on a 
list.

With respect to your remark, "As the situation in the USA continues to 
decline, the resulting unrest frustration, and despair is indeed liable to 
erupt into violence or
scattered incidents of violence in the next year or so," I have little 
substantive disagreement with this.  But that would be a whole different 
discussion than this one.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "E.Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:23 PM
To: "Laurie Solomon" <ls1000 at live.com>; "C. G. Estabrook" 
<galliher at illinois.edu>
Cc: "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw:  Curiouser and Curiouser - SPLC

> The people who I know that are on the list are often quite radical in 
> their level of commitment but none of the ones I know are willing to 
> resort to violence to accomplish their means and quite frequently speak 
> out against violence.
>
> As the situation in the USA continues to decline, the resulting unrest, 
> frustration, and despair is indeed liable to erupt into violence or 
> scattered incidents of violence in the next year or so.  I dont think that 
> many of the people that SPLC has fingered want violence, but SPLC and 
> other similar groups would certainly enjoy that opportunity for exposure 
> and fundraising.
>
> I take offense to your suggestion that education might make one less of a 
> hillbilly redneck or that being one is a bad thing.  :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Laurie Solomon" <ls1000 at live.com>
> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
> Cc: "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Curiouser and Curiouser - SPLC
>
>
>>I have not bought anything from anyone about anyone.  I do think that the 
>>militias for the most part are (1) "fundamentalist Christian," which I 
>>view Wayne as being also, (2) libertarian which I view Wayne as being 
>>also, (3) anti-government individualists, which I view Wayne as being as 
>>well, (4) chauvinistically pro American with respect to their patriotic 
>>"American and Americans are superior to everyone else" feelings even if 
>>they are also anti-government just as I believe Wayne to be, and (5) 
>>dogmatically opinionated just as I see Wayne to be.  Where they differ is 
>>that they (unlike Wayne) (1) are willing to advocate and engage in 
>>violence to gain their ends, (2) are often racist and sexist ion their 
>>behaviors and attitudes, (3) are in many cases poor uneducated white males 
>>who many might consider to be "rednecks" and "hillbillies" in their 
>>behaviors, attitudes, and practices, and (4)  are not inclined to read or 
>>research anything for supportive factually detailed evidence or any kind - 
>>correct or inaccurate, and (5) are typically passive followers who are 
>>easily worked into a frenzy by a more dominant and charismatic orator.
>>
>> Given my assessment of Wayne and of the militia types, I made my 
>> statement that I was not at all surprised that he was pleased to 
>> personally know many on the list and to have worked with them.   The 
>> government and the establishment including the mass media hold up the 
>> military personal that served and especially dies or were maimed in Iraq 
>> and Afghanistan  and other places as heroes; but just because the 
>> establishment puts out that propaganda does not mean that I have to 
>> accept it  and view them as heroes as contrasted to regarding them as 
>> being both villains and/or fools.  I make my own evaluations of the 
>> information that I acquire from various sources including this list when 
>> I make my analyses, comparisons, and judgments.  I do not buy  whole hog 
>> into anything which is why most people say that I am a complete cynic and 
>> skeptic who accepts no set of values or beliefs as being the truth and 
>> who approaches things pessimistically at best with a willingness to be 
>> surprised if the opposite takes place.
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:32 AM
>> To: "Laurie Solomon" <ls1000 at live.com>
>> Cc: "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw:  Curiouser and Curiouser - SPLC
>>
>>> Because you've bought a lot of pro-government propaganda about "the 
>>> Right."
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/21/10 10:46 AM, Laurie Solomon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why am I not surprised to hear that?
>>>>
>>>> *From:* E.Wayne Johnson <mailto:ewj at pigs.ag>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:45 AM
>>>> *To:* peace discuss <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> *Subject:* [Peace-discuss] Curiouser and Curiouser - SPLC
>>>>
>>>> Our old friends at the Southern Poverty Law Center have issued a 
>>>> gallery
>>>> of Patriots (Fairly Dangerous Persons).
>>>> Although no one from Champaign-Urbana made the list or even got a
>>>> dishonourable mention, I am pleased to say that I know Nine of these
>>>> people personally and have worked with them.
>>>> http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-patriots
>>>
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