[Peace-discuss] Shlomo Sand: The Invention of the Jewish People

[David Green]

The gist of the matter, according to Sand, seems to be this: the Jews were not 
expelled from Judea by the Romans after the fall of the 2nd Temple (70 A.D.); 
but they did continue to expand their numbers by proselytizing and conversion 
around the Greek world (in spite of its painfulness for men); but Christians 
turned out to be better at both P & C (perhaps abetted by being able to C 
without being C'd; but there's no evidence offered for that); and that Judaism 
subsequently becoming non-proselytizing and relatively exclusionary was in 
effect the result of its losing out to the Jesus-freaks in the area of 
salesmanship (which again challenges an established Jewish stereotype). But 
again, as Sutcliffe stresses, the historical speculation, although well-founded 
and well-explained in the book, is less important than the manner in which the 
history of Judaism was "invented" in the 19th century by Reform German 
Jews--including all the way back to Abraham--historians Urred from the start in 
order to construct a nationalist narrative.

DG




________________________________
From: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
To: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>; Peace Discuss 
<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 2:18:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Shlomo Sand: The Invention of the Jewish People

OK, I'm going to have to read it.  I'm teaching a History of Christianity course 
in the Religious Studies Department this fall, and in fact there's been some 
interesting academic work in the last decade on the inter-mixture of Judaism and 
Christianity ca. 200-500CE.  I hope I have students au courant enough to ask 
about Sand & the the early relationship between Judaism and Christianity. --CGE

On 8/9/10 1:00 PM, David Green wrote: 
Hi Mort,
>
>I'm more than half-way through it, and it's fascinating, although often tough 
>going. It's also very well-written, well-translated, or both. I think it gets at 
>historical truths, but more interestingly (as Adam points out) at 
>historiographical truths from 19th century Germany, through the origins of 
>Zionism, to the present. What's done is done, and Israel "exists." But it 
>wouldn't hurt if people understood the implications of the likelihood that the 
>Palestinians are descendants of the Judaeans of antiquity, and that Jews like 
>you and me are almost certainly not. It also says a lot about the early 
>relationship between Judaism and Christianity that is not well known.
>
>DG
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>
>To: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 12:30:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Shlomo Sand: The Invention of the Jewish People
>
>David, 
>
>
>Thanks for sending this along. Have you read Sand's book? Opinions?  There are 
>many on the Amazon web site for this book. Of course, how to distinguish the 
>politics from the "truth" is a problem seen there. 
>
>
>Mort
>
>
>On Aug 9, 2010, at 8:37 AM, David Green wrote:
>
>A brief review of this book by Adam Sutcliffe, formerly on the faculty here:
>>
>>http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=10668&jid=1&href=fulltext
>>


      
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