[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] couple things

[E.Wayne Johnson]

That's an interesting take on the matter, Carl.

Although I think that Karl Rove is a deserving fellow,
it is true that the protest could easily be misconstrued as simply
being pro-Obama or pro-Dem, which would be a sorry outcome.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
To: <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
Cc: "C. G. ESTABROOK" <cge at shout.net>; "Stuart Levy" <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu>; 
"Socialist Forum" <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; "Peace-discuss List" 
<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] couple things


I think it plays into the conviction held by our political class (about 20% 
of
the population, roughly the college-educated) that there are two positions 
in
American politics - left/right, liberal/conservative, etc.  To oppose one is 
to
promote the other.

Obama and the Democrats have employed this assumption almost completely to 
coopt
the anti-war movement in the last five years.  So as a "crude, practical
matter," we shouldn't help them do it.

Robert Naiman wrote:
> In addition to what Stuart said, Karl Rove is a contemporary political
> player. It isn't merely a question of protesting someone who helped
> organize crimes against humanity in the past. He is a prominent
> advocate - big media perch - of crimes against humanity in the
> present. If you think of the Obama Administration as including the
> media, Karl Rove is part of the Obama Administration.
>
> But more importantly, as Jim Duffett of CBHC and I envisioned this
> protest, at least, the goal isn't so much to project the message "we
> hate Karl Rove" or "Karl Rove is evil"; rather, we see Karl Rove's
> presence in Champaign as a hook on which to hang: end the wars, bring
> the troops home, put America back to work, health care for all... In
> media terms, Karl Rove's presence is a big deal; Jim D. believes there
> will be out of town media there.
>
> So, as a crude, practical matter, for me the question boils down to
> this: in what contexts is it most strategic to hold your sign? When
> you are at a peace demonstration on a city sidewalk, typically, all
> other things being equal, if you can you stand on the street with the
> most traffic, because more people will see you. Here the question is a
> bit more of a probability calculation, because we can't know exactly
> what the media play will be. But I would note that a few days ago
> there was a national day of mobilization for higher education, and it
> got significant media coverage, and when I was watching the coverage
> on CNN, there were anti-war signs (e.g. "money for schools, not for
> war.")
>
> If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the 
> mountain...
>
> Here's what Jim D sent around...
>
> FAMILY VALUES
> NOT
> CORPORATE GREED
> RALLY
> LIVING WAGE JOBS
> HEALTH CARE    PEACE
> STOP BUDGET CUTS
>
> March 20th (Saturday)
> 10:30am - Noon
> I Hotel & Conference Center
>
>       (1900 South First Street, Champaign – directly
>
>        South of the Illini Assembly Hall/parking)
>
> On March 20th, Karl Rove will join Illinois political figures
> attending the Lincolin Day Luncheon for the Champaign County GOP.  For
> the past 14 months opponents of fairness have been waging a
> mean-spirited, divisive and right out lying campaign on how pro-family
> health care reforms, jobs and other measures would affect our county.
> Saying NO and defending the financial interests of the  insurance
> industry, Wall Street and other corporate interests are NOT family
> values.
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Stuart Levy <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 08:51:24PM -0600, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
>>> It is certainly "a bit perverse" to assert that the present 
>>> administration
>>> represents any improvement over that last in, say, the matter of killing
>>> people.
>> I don't think we need to claim that to find Rove thoroughly worthy
>> of demonstrating against.
>>
>> Rove is one of the principal political architects of support for the
>> wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  And he has not changed his tune.
>> The Obama administration has not shown that kind of grand initiative --
>> they owe a heavy debt to the previous admin.
>>
>> For some fun, check out recent Doonesbury strips (doonesbury.com),
>> which involve helicopters, the CIA, and an Afghan wedding party, but
>> not in the usual tragic way.  It also includes Trudeau's favorite
>> quotes from recent news, and here's the current one:
>>
>>    "I'm proud that we used techniques that broke the will of these
>>    terrorists... I'm proud that we kept the world safer than it was,
>>    by use of these techniques." -- Karl Rove on waterboarding
>>
>> If John Yoo came to town, would we refrain from demonstrating about
>> his presence on the grounds that he wasn't part of the current 
>> administration?
>> How short are our memories supposed to get?
>>
>> During the Bush administration I didn't see AWARE, at least, as
>> a specifically anti-Republican action group, and I don't see us as a
>> specifically anti-Democratic one now.  We're a peace group.
>>
>>   Stuart
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>
>
>

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.