[Peace-discuss] Israel and Aid…

[Morton K. Brussel]

David,

As I replied to Carl, none of this pertains to what Nader wrote, or was trying to do in writing. In that connection, relative to your question 3), it is not an either/or issue. It is useful to show that supporting the Palestinians is worthwhile no matter what, given the situation, the oppression, they face, and it is also useful in changing U.S. public opinion to show that American wealth and influence is being sacrificed for a country that does not deserve it, and which in any case does not benefit the U.S. (or even U.S. elites and corporations).  If this can stop or decrease our support of Israel, in my mind those are all worthwhile ends.  This does not at all preclude a scathing critique of the U.S. corporate/imperial aims and wars, or a discussion that acknowledges that (some or even most) things Israel does is in furtherance of those aims. Not everything it does furthers those aims.

You seem to believe that there has to be an acknowledgment that whatever Israel does is in furtherance of U.S. objectives. I disagree, and so does Nader.

Other small remarks…

On Mar 24, 2010, at 1:00 PM, David Green wrote:

> Mort, I need to write another article that puts all this in a clearer context, but, building on Carl's questions, the questions remain:
>  
> 1. How does supporting unprincipled behavior on behalf of U.S "interests" help to support principled behavior on behalf of the Palestinians?

Is Nader supporting such unprincipled behavior…?


> 2. Can principled (right, just) outcomes come from an unprincipled analysis?

Yes, but that (unprincipled analysis) is not the issue in Nader's article. 
>  
> 3. Is it even pragmatically worthwhile to argue the Palestinians case on the basis of U.S. "interests."?
>  
> My answers are: it doesn't, no, and no.

A discussion of what is in the interests of the USA is not simple.

--mkb


>  
> It's become commonplace, but this sort of careless argument has to be seen as more a syndrome than a symptom when coming from someone like Nader. Why do "progressives" feel like they have to jump at the chance to support their arguments with evidence from someone like Petraeus? Does the case for Palestinian rights depend on its utility in providing for a safer environment for American occupiers in Iraq and Aghanistan?
>  
> Again, this will be explored in a longer format.
>  
> DG
> From: Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>
> To: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
> Cc: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Wed, March 24, 2010 12:10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Israel and Aid…
> 
> I think your questions are all irrelevant to what Nader hopes to bring to the attention of the populace. He tries to show that Israel is undeserving of support from the USA.  Nader is not the radical you would want him to be, but his heart is in the right place, and his ideas are worth considering. Aside from this, he is appalled at what Israel policy has wreaked in the Middle East. You are prone to ignore all that.
> 
> --mkb
> 
> On Mar 24, 2010, at 12:21 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
> 
> > The questions are,
> > 
> > [1] Is Israel diverting US policy makers from pursuing the national interest?
> > 
> > [2] Is the national interest as understood by US policy makers something to be pursued?
> > 
> > [3] Is the national interest so understood in fact in the interest of most Americans?
> > 
> > The answer to all three is, "No."
> > 
> > 
> > ===
> > On Tue Mar 23 2010 Brussel Morton K. <mkbrussel at comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Useful remarks to try to change the atmosphere… Nader clearly doesn't believe that the U.S. head wagging the Israeli tail.
> > 
> >     Published on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 by CommonDreams.org
> >     Israel & Aid
> >     by Ralph Nader
> >     [...]
> > 
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