[Peace-discuss] Punish the Democrats, yes
C. G. Estabrook
galliher at illinois.edu
Tue Oct 19 09:14:27 CDT 2010
Bob, you're urging votes for the Democrats and calling Chris Floyd "a
dogma-head moron"?!
Now I realize that your arguments in support of the war-makers are so weak and
contradictory that you're reduced to playground taunts, but I suggest that
people who have not done so read Floyd's blog, "Empire Burlesque: High Crimes
and Low Comedy in the American Imperium" <http://www.chris-floyd.com/>. They
will see that there are moronic comments being made in these matters, but not
usually by him. --CGE
On 10/19/10 8:33 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
> Perhaps it is that simple for someone who is as much of a dogma-head moron as
> Chris Floyd obviously is. For some people it is simple that "abortion is
> murder." This assertion merits as much claim on our attention as Chris Floyd's.
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:23 AM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>
> "Friends, it's very simple: if you support Barack Obama and the Democrats
> -- even if reluctantly, even if you're just being all sophisticatedly
> super-savvy and blogospherically strategic about it... -- you are
> supporting the outright murder of innocent people who have never done
> anything against you or yours. You have walked into a house, battered down
> the bedroom door, put the barrel of a gun against the temple of a sleeping
> child, and pulled the trigger. That is what you are supporting, that is
> what you are complicit in, /*that is what you yourself are doing.*/"
>
> Full article at
> <http://chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html>.
>
>
>
> On 10/18/10 10:32 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>> Tim Johnson is one of those who believes Life starts at conception and
>> ends at birth.
>> --Jenifer
>>
>> --- On *Mon, 10/18/10, Morton K. Brussel /<brussel at illinois.edu>
>> <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>
>> <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Punish the Democrats, yes
>> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
>> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>
>> Cc: "Ron Szoke" <r-szoke at illinois.edu> <mailto:r-szoke at illinois.edu>,
>> "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 7:00 PM
>>
>> The outrage of Estabrook seems reserved for Democrats, without
>> regarding the very probable (consider what they're saying)
>> consequences of having Tea-Party types and/or Republicans controling
>> government. None of the execrable policies of the G.W. Bush or Obama
>> administrations are likely to be revised or retracted. He has
>> forgotten about the Bush administration?
>>
>> The mania of the current campaign aimed at David Gill, characterized
>> as a stand-in for Obama, is perverse and contary to what has come
>> from statements and presentations of Gill. It's remarkable how much
>> faith Carl has in Tim Johnson.
>>
>> --mkb
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 5:29 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>
>>> This is outrageous special pleading. It says to return the
>>> Democrats to office, even though they're the ones responsible for
>>> "unnecessary deaths of people in wars from [Palestine to Pakistan
>>> and from Central Asia to the Horn of Africa]."
>>>
>>> Of course the Democrats are also responsible for not extending
>>> Medicare to all, not taking over the too-big-to-fail banks and
>>> companies and running them for the public good, not stopping
>>> foreclosures, not establishing an effective jobs program, etc., etc.
>>> - and not by accident, but because they're working for the banks,
>>> the insurance companies, the oil companies, the construction
>>> companies, et al.
>>>
>>> The Democrat’s allegedly reformist agenda masks programs to ensure
>>> that no major stakeholder in his coalition of corporate backers will
>>> suffer significant losses, and will even enjoy spectacular gains —
>>> the perfection of the long right turn of the Democratic Party since
>>> the 1970s, as financialization of the economy led to shedding New
>>> Deal commitments so as to compete with the Republicans for corporate
>>> patronage.
>>>
>>> Reject the policies by not voting for them. Vote Green or for
>>> individual legislators who e.g. vote against the war, like Kucinich,
>>> Paul, or Johnson (IL). We'll still have to settle accounts with the
>>> new Congress on war and social legislation, whoever is elected.
>>>
>>> Say to the Democrats what Cromwell said to the Rump parliament:
>>> "Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/18/10 4:50 PM, Ron Szoke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/101510.html
>>>>
>>>> The 'Teach-the-Dems-a-Lesson' Myth
>>>>
>>>> By Robert Parry (A Special Report)
>>>> October 15, 2010
>>>>
>>>> If my e-mail inbox is any indication, many American progressives plan
>>>> to use the Nov. 2 election as an opportunity to “teach the Democrats a
>>>> lesson” by either not voting or casting ballots for third parties, even if
>>>> this contributes to the expected Republican (and Tea Party) landslide.
>>>>
>>>> The thinking seems to be that the loss of the congressional majorities
>>>> will punish the Democrats for accepting half-measures and compromises
>>>> on issues from health care and financial reform to job stimulus and war.
>>>> The Left’s hope apparently is that the chastened Democrats will then
>>>> shift toward more progressive positions and be more assertive.
>>>>
>>>> However, modern American political history tells us that this strategy
>>>> never works. After the four key elections in which many progressives
>>>> abandoned the governing Democrats – in 1968, 1980, 1994 and 2000 –
>>>> not only did Republicans take U.S. politics further to the right, but the
>>>> surviving Democrats tacked more to the center and grew more timid.
>>>>
>>>> All four elections also were marred by GOP dirty tricks that drew little or
>>>> no reaction from either the governing Democrats or the progressives,
>>>> emboldening the slash-and-burn Republicans to operate in an ever
>>>> more audacious style.
>>>>
>>>> Tragically, too, the Left’s sideline-sitting contributed to the unnecessary
>>>> deaths of millions of people in wars from Vietnam and Central America
>>>> to Iraq and Afghanistan. Arguably even worse, U.S. inaction on global
>>>> warming – a neglect surely to be continued if Republicans and Tea
>>>> Partiers are victorious in Election 2010 – may doom the future of a
>>>> livable planet.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, the “teach-the-Dems-a-lesson” strategy not only
>>>> doesn’t work, it’s extremely dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> . . .
>>>> <much more>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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