[Peace-discuss] DN: NAACP Report Ties Tea Party to Militia and Racist Groups

[Laurie Solomon]

>Make a list of anti-war Democrats - ones who are willing to vote against funding the current war, for example - not just those who say "I'm against war."  (Everyone is for peace - on their own terms.)

While the point about those who merely say that they are something are often only so in their own minds and on their own terms is a valid point to an extent, I might point out that the same thing can be said for your assertion that you are an (actual) socialist.

Having said that, I also will not that you have just changed the nature and terms of your original assertion that there are more anti-war tea-partiers than there are anti-war Democrats to one that restricts the populations of each heading to specific sub=populations that were never specified before.  You have restricted those that are considered for the purpose of  your challenge to not only members of a formally organized group (e.g., the Democratic Party) but to elected officials who are members of that political party  and not just the ordinary membership of that political party or those who identify as Democrats but are not formally members or participants in the formal organization (e.g., ordinary voters who identify as Democrats but have not direct affiliation with the party and its machinery except to contribut money to it and vote in elections for its candidates).  Similarly you have extended your population of  tea-partiers to those who are informally or loosely associated with the loosely defined tea-party movement , for want of a better term, as well as those who are formally members of formally organized and established tea-party organizations.  Moreover, you have arbitrarily assigned several formally organized groups that may have members who are part of or support the tea-party movement and its members but which themselves do not claim to be tea-party organizations or that all their members are tea-partiers.  Futhermore, none of the formally associated people identified as formal members of an established and organized tea-party organization is an elected official who has actually voted against funding the current war as opposed to merely saying that they are willing to or would if elected and placed in a position where they were given the choice.  As far as I know, neither Ron Paul or Tim Johnson claim to be tea-partiers or formally belong to a organized tea-party political party or established tea-party organization.  They are both Republicans, as far as I know, and may have organized groups of people who are their followers or they may associate or affiliate with certain formal journals.

None of this was specified in your original assertion but only now are being specified.  Somehow, you have confirmed what Mort said you would do - changed the nature of the assertion you made





From: C. G. Estabrook 
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 3:18 PM
To: Brussel 
Cc: Peace-discuss List 
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] DN: NAACP Report Ties Tea Party to Militia and Racist Groups


Mort--

Make a list of anti-war Democrats - ones who are willing to vote against funding the current war, for example - not just those who say "I'm against war."  (Everyone is for peace - on their own terms.)

Send me your list, and I'll send you a longer one - beginning with Ron Paul's and Justin Raimondo's people - of those associated with the teapartiers who are against this war. 

I remember, from a math class long ago, that this was a way to prove the existence of multiple infinities, by a process of iteration...

Neither group is infinite, but they do differ in magnitude.  

Furthermore, the ones I refer to are organized - into Paul's R3VOLution, the Libertarian party, the paleoconservatives around several journals - while there is no organized Democratic party opposition to the Democratic president and administration.

Those of us with memories of a generation ago want to believe that there is an anti-war movement on the left wing of the Democratic party.

Unfortunately, no one's home.  It's been Obama's great contribution to the war effort to make that so.  --CGE 


On 10/21/10 2:38 PM, Brussel wrote: 
  Karen, 


  Ask Carl where he gets his data (re. his first line below). Ask where most of the funding, who are the biggest contributors, and where most of the PR for the Tea party comes from. And so what conclusion may one draw?


  Don't be surprised if he switches the subject, refuses to answer, or cannot answer, because he doesn't have reliable sources. 


  --mkb


  On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:18 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:


    Come on, Karen. There are more anti-war teapartiers than anti-war Democrats.

    Obama's co-option of the anti-war movement meant that there is no parallel among the Democrats to Ron Paul's movement of principled opposition to the war, nor to that of libertarians and paleoconservatives around the website Antiwar.com or the journal The American Conservative. 

    As an (actual) socialist, I deplore that fact. 

    On 10/21/10 9:30 AM, Karen Medina wrote: 
I did notice that there were very few "constitutionalists" around
before the scare tactic of "they are going to give health care to
undocumented immigrants" became popular.

Very few of the tea-partiers are in the anti-war movement.

All I am saying is that it is easy to count the ones that are consistent.

With the ones that are inconsistent, it is harder to count them, but
it is easy to tell if they have read the constitution.

-karen medina
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