[Peace-discuss] This list is for brief announcements only
C. G. Estabrook
galliher at illinois.edu
Thu Oct 21 18:58:00 CDT 2010
Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on Peace Discuss?
I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our killing people in
Asia was important enough to be concerned about.
On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
> Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook /<galliher at illinois.edu>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
> To: "Gregg Gordon" <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Peace List" <peace at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace-discuss"
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
>
> First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon calls "The
> Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a million
> people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that the tens
> of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a million under Bush; and
> apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his third (Obama)
> term.
>
> That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but of
> course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way justified by
> being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam.
>
> It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes a tick
> up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's) adviser Zbigniew
> Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan (before the
> Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their own," as he
> said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation to date.
>
> If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war to an
> end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war concluded by
> Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be likely. The news
> suggests that the Obama administration is looking to expand the war with
> an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to abandon
> the world's greatest energy-producing region.
>
> Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US foreign
> policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war is to "stop
> terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he has to lie, because
> the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast is
> Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of September 2001
> - which is directed against terrorism.
>
> Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in America,
> "How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by Herb Caen:
> "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The Russians
> did - and survived and prospered from the end of their war.
>
> Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from office
> and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript army to do it.
>
> Regards, CGE
>
> On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>> So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider either Iraq or
>> Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up about them?
>> I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.
>> And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist who doesn't mind
>> us murdering brown people. That is /so/ lame. It's just that not all of
>> us see the world in as simple terms as you seem to. Simple solutions are
>> nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.
>> All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why don't you
>> come up with something positive to do (as opposed to sniping from the
>> sidelines) that might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all get
>> behind you.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>> *To:* Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> </mc/compose?to=ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>> *Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace List
>> <peace at lists.chambana.net> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>;
>> Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>
>> You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since WWII - called
>> by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic
>> administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since the
>> current Democratic administration has greatly expanded the killing in
>> AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their policies.
>> Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.
>>
>> To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some Asians, because
>> they might do some good someplace else," is at best a counsel of despair,
>> if not an outright criminal attitude. Particularly when it seems that
>> they're doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not
>> surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the banks, the
>> insurance companies, the oil and construction companies, etc. --CGE
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>> Maybe because there are other important issues that she /does/ agree
>>> with him on. The only way you're going to find a candidate you're in
>>> 100% agreement with is to run for office. If support for the war is an
>>> absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it that way.
>>> But if you think the war will end sooner if more Republicans get
>>> elected, I think you're out of your mind.
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
>>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>>> *To:* Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>> *Cc:* Peace List <peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss
>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>
>>> This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on an anti-war list
>>> would contribute to him.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>>> Another request for help...
>>>> I love this guy!
>>>> --Jenifer
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson
>>>> /<alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>
>>>> </mc/compose?to=alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>/*wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *CallforGrayson.com <http://callforgrayson.com/>*
>>>>
>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>
>>>>
>>>> *Make 10 calls now!
>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jenifer,
>>>>
>>>> This election is about the people standing against corporate
>>>> special interests, which are trying to bury me with lying ads
>>>> because they know I can’t be bought. But money can’t vote – people can.
>>>>
>>>> This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means people in
>>>> Central Florida are voting right now.
>>>>
>>>> Getting our supporters to the polls now could make up our winning
>>>> margin, and that's why we need you calling supporters and asking
>>>> them to vote.
>>>>
>>>> You can start calling whenever you like, but*we really need people
>>>> to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.
>>>>
>>>> Can you sign up for a shift *today from 4-6 p.m. ET
>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>,
>>>> or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET
>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*?
>>>>
>>>> We'll give you suggestions on what to say, and a reporting tool so
>>>> it's easy to let us know how it's going.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Truth,
>>>>
>>>> Alan Grayson
>>>>
>>>> P.S. -- If you don't have time today, please sign up to make calls
>>>> on another day between now and Election Day, November 2. Every
>>>> voter you talk to will make a difference.
>>>>
>>>> *Sign up now.
>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to Elect Alan Grayson
>>>>
>>>> empowered by Salsa <http://www.salsalabs.com/?email>
>>>> Web Bug from http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net </mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net </mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net </mc/compose?to=Peace at lists.chambana.net>
> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20101021/c553ea53/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Peace-discuss
mailing list