[Peace-discuss] [Peace] come and share your reasons for being against this war with Dr. Gill / Tuesday, 5pm-6pm / UPTV 400 South Vine Street, Urbana, IL

Wed Oct 27 13:56:39 CDT 2010

Self-styled "progressives" screaming for censorship - to protect their 
"community" from incorrect thoughts!

Since Brian's favored form of argument seems to be an expletive, I suppose I 
shouldn't be surprised.

On 10/27/10 1:05 PM, Brian Dolinar wrote:
>  Seriously, are you folks going to allow this fool to bully his way
>  into everybody's mailboxes. He's already destroyed the AWARE group,
>  now are you going to allow him to cause a mass exodus from the peace
>  list, a valuable resource to the progressive community?
>
>  BD
>
>  On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 12:56 PM, C. G. Estabrook
>  <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>
>  Mort--
>
>  Naturally I appreciate your tender concern for my absence from AOTA's
>  interview with David Gill. In fact at the time I was literally up in
>  the air, flying Missoula-Denver-Dallas-CU and arriving home just in
>  time to see the program. In fact, I would love to have asked Gill
>  some questions about the war - and to quote back to him his evasions
>  from the past.
>
>  Linda got Gill to agree to be on the show - and asked me not to be
>  "confrontational." But Gill said he couldn't make the regular
>  recording time. So I asked the accommodating people at UPTV to
>  provide us with other possible times: Gill eventually chose 5-6pm on
>  10/26. As it happened, I was out of town Friday-Tuesday.
>
>  I've been corresponding with Gill since he announced for the seat in
>  the fall of 2009 - trying to get him to come clean on his stance on
>  the war. (From the News-Gazette, October, 2009: "Gill said he would
>  not support a total withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan...")
>
>  Gill's statement read at the top of program managed to evade any
>  mention of (a) the administration's motive for the AfPak war and its
>  lies ("stopping terrorism") about those motives; (b) any principled -
>  as opposed to "pragmatic" ("we might not be winning") - reason to
>  oppose the war (as found, e.g., among Ron Paulists, Libertarians and
>  paleo-conservatives); and/or (c) a pledge like Tim Johnson's to vote
>  against any more money for war. (And Johnson is in fact voting that
>  way.) What the statement does contain are self-serving errors in fact
>  about the history of the AfPak war.
>
>  As for the no-hope comment, did you note that the NYT gave Gill a
>  0.2% (that's two-tenths of one percent) chance of winning?
>
>  And I'm sorry you don't see the difference between Gill's campaign
>  and the "presumed futile" Green party campaign for the same seat in
>  2002. The Greens took advantage of a quirk in the repressive
>  election laws to run a campaign - which they knew they would loose -
>  in order to raise issues that would not be raised by the Republicans
>  or Democrats. Gill evaded issues - especially the war - in order to
>  try to be elected.
>
>  It's not a smear to point out those evasions. --CGE
>
>  On 10/26/10 11:45 PM, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
> > Most telling of all is the
>  absence of Carl Estabrook on the panel. If
>
> > he were able to participate (Did he require an invitation
>  [for a
>
> > program he initiated]? Did Gill object to his possible
>  presence on
>
> > the panel with him?), his absence indicates rank cowardice.
>  Evidently
>
> > Estabrook feels he can mouth off accusations better if there
>  is no
>
> > face-to face rebuttal.
>
> >
>
> > As for the sly "no-hope" comment, Estabrook should know what
>  it means
>
> > to run a campaign presumed futile. His attempt to smear the
>  program
>
> > is appalling.
>
> >
>
> > I thought Gill expressed himself admirably, and Karen, Ron
>  and Linda
>
> > deserve our thanks for carrying on and preparing well.
>
> >
>
> > --mkb
>
> >
>
> > On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:06 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> The program tonight as broadcast showed a remarkable
>  development to
>
> >> David Gill's views on the US war in the Middle East.
>  (Gill is the
>
> >> no-hope Democratic candidate running against the
>  Republican
>
> >> incumbent, Tim Johnson, for the local congressional
>  seat.) He even
>
> >> struggled to modify the statement - his statement - read
>  by a
>
> >> member of the panel at the beginning of the program!
>
> >>
>
> >> One can see why - that statement is a tissue of lies.
>  What he said
>
> >> tonight - together with that statement - is a painful
>  exercise in
>
> >> misrepresentation - both of his own views and those of
>  his
>
> >> opponent. That has of course been the practice of the
>  Democrats
>
> >> since the beginning of this phase of the Long War.
>
> >>
>
> >> See the statement here:
>
> >>
>  <http://www.gill2010.com/issues/foreign-policy/afghanistan/>
>  <http://www.gill2010.com/issues/foreign-policy/afghanistan/>.
>
> >>
>
> >> We might actually get a debate on the war if people have
>  a chance
>
> >> to see how disingenuous Gill's statement is - even with
>  his
>
> >> "evolutions" on tonight's program.
>
> >>
>
> >> Gill's major charge against Johnson is that he "doesn't
>  support the
>
> >> troops" - a made-up Bushism. But Gill's prevarications
>  and
>
> >> misrepresentations have deprived the local voters of a
>  real debate
>
> >> on the war - which looked liked happening, when Johnson
>  said he
>
> >> was wrong to vote for the invasions of Afghanistan and
>  Iraq, and
>
> >> pledged to vote against any more money for war in the
>  Mideast - and
>
> >> he is voting that way. Gill still won't make that pledge,
>  as a
>
> >> close examination of his statement shows.
>
> >>
>
> >> Both parties have worked hard to make sure that next
>  week's
>
> >> election is meaningless - and have largely succeeded. It
>  will not,
>
> >> most importantly, be a vote on the war. We should
>  therefore be
>
> >> working to stir up people across the political spectrum
>  on the
>
> >> military and economic betrayals of the current president
>  and
>
> >> Congress.
>
> >>
>
> >> The question is, Whom are we going to allow Barack Obama
>  to kill
>
> >> going forward, and why?
>
> >>
>
> >> Some people are talking about what Obama and the
>  Democratas are
>
> >> actually doing. Contrast Chris Floyd's remarks, as
>  follows, with
>
> >> Gill's evasions, above:
>
> >>
>
> >> "...Friends, it's very simple: if you support Barack
>  Obama and the
>
> >> Democrats -- even if reluctantly, even if you're just
>  being all
>
> >> sophisticatedly super-savvy and blogospherically
>  strategic about
>
> >> it, playing the "long game" or eleven-dimensional chess
>  or what
>
> >> have you -- you are supporting the outright murder of
>  innocent
>
> >> people who have never done anything against you or yours.
>  You have
>
> >> walked into a house, battered down the bedroom door, put
>  the barrel
>
> >> of a gun against the temple of a sleeping child, and
>  pulled the
>
> >> trigger. That is what you are supporting, that is what
>  you are
>
> >> complicit in, that is what you yourself are doing."
>
> >>
>
> >> Full article at
>
> >>
> 
<http://chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html>
> 
<http://chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html>.
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >>
>  On 10/25/10 12:05 PM, Karen Medina wrote:
> >>> Dr. Gill is coming to
>  talk with
>
> >> AWARE (the local anti-war,
>
> >>
>
> >>> anti-racism effort of Champaign-Urbana). Would you
>  like to
>
> >> come and
>
> >>
>
> >>> share your reasons for being against this war with
>  Dr. Gill?
>
> >> We would
>
> >>
>
> >>> greatly appreciate it.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5pm-6pm UPTV (in the Urbana
>  City
>
> >> Council
>
> >>
>
> >>> Chambers) 400 South Vine Street, Urbana, IL A taping
>  of AWARE
>
> >> on the
>
> >>
>
> >>> Air for Channel 6 that will air at 10pm Tuesday
>  evening.
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list
>  Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>  http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
>
>
>  -- Brian Dolinar, Ph.D. 303 W. Locust St. Urbana, IL 61801
>  briandolinar at gmail.com <mailto:briandolinar at gmail.com>
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