[Peace-discuss] Fwd: Richard Dawkins Furious At Pope For TyingGodless To Nazis

[C. G. Estabrook]

  Mort--

[1] I take it that you're volunteering for the panel "Ditchkins and the Pope 
(and God)" that I'm putting together for News from Neptune on UPTV (date TBA).

I envision four participants - I mean local participants (i.e., not Dawkins, 
Hitchens, Benedict, & God) - of which you and I are two, discussing the 
following four texts:

--R. Dawkins, "The God Delusion";

--C. Hitchens, "God is Not Great";

--P. Benedict, "Caritas in veritate" (his economic manifesto - in English); and

--T. Eagleton (standing in for God), "Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections 
on the God Debate."

Perhaps you can suggest other discussants, or they may volunteer themselves.


[2] Far from being “a despicable outrage,” the paragraph from the pope that "set 
off Dawkins" contains the following true statements:

"...a Nazi tyranny ... denied our common humanity to many, especially the 
Jews...; [and]

"...Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love [and] opposed 
the Nazis ... paid for that opposition with their lives..."

- and the following debatable one (true I think as the Marxists say "in the last 
instance"):

"...the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately 
to a truncated vision of man and of society..."

But that last after all was what he was trying to convince people of.  Let's 
discuss it.

Regards, Carl


On 9/19/10 11:25 PM, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
>  So what do you disagree with in Dawkins' reply? Arguments would be
>  more useful than sneers. Perhaps you should read his book(s) and doff
>  your parochial hat..
>
>  His remarks were both apt and appreciated...
>
>
>  On Sep 19, 2010, at 9:44 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
> > If anyone took Dawkins seriously before this, I doubt they will
> > now.
> >
> > For those who are still abject believers, I recommend Terry
> > Eagleton, "Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God
> > Debate" (Yale UP pbk, 2010).
> >
> > If I thought anyone took Ditchkins seriously, I'd propose a
> > symposium or panel on the subject. I doubt I'd find many takers.
> >
> > Actually, I'd be willing to host it on my UPTV program, News from
> > Neptune.
> >
> > But I don't think anyone's interested enough for that.
> >
> > ...
> >>
> >> Richard Dawkins Furious At Pope For Tying Godless To Nazis
> >>
> >> Posted in Liberaland by Alan • September 17, 2010,
> >>
> >> Pope Benedict’s speech to Queen Elizabeth in England praised how
> >> Britain fought “Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from
> >> society,” prompting one of the world’s best known atheists,
> >> Richard Dawkins, to proclaim it “a despicable outrage.” What set
> >> off Dawkins is this paragraph:
> >>
> >> “Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her
> >> leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God
> >> from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially
> >> the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the
> >> regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke
> >> the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition
> >> with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the
> >> atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget
> >> how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life
> >> leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and
> >> thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny”
> >> (Caritas in Veritate, 29).”
> >>
> >> Dawkins responds:
> >>
> >> Even if Hitler had been an atheist, his political philosophy was
> >> not based upon atheism and had no connection with atheism. Hitler
> >> was arguably (and by his own account) a Roman Catholic. In any
> >> case he enjoyed the open support of many of the most senior
> >> catholic clergy in Germany and the less demonstrative support of
> >> Pope Pius XII. Even if Hitler had been an atheist (he certainly
> >> was not), the rank and file Germans who carried out the attempted
> >> extermination of the Jews were Christians, almost to a man:
> >> either Catholic or Lutheran, primed to their anti-Semitism by
> >> centuries of Catholic propaganda about ‘Christ-killers’ and by
> >> Martin Luther’s own seething hatred of the Jews. To mention
> >> Ratzinger’s membership of the Hitler Youth might be thought to be
> >> fighting dirty, but my feeling is that the gloves are off after
> >> this disgraceful paragraph by the pope.
> >>
> >> Dawkins is urging a letter-writing campaign to British media in
> >> protest, adding:
> >>
> >> I am incandescent with rage at the sycophantic BBC coverage, and
> >> the sight of British toadies bowing and scraping to this odious
> >> man. I thought he was bad before. This puts the lid on it.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20100920/135f0a36/attachment.html>