[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: Local rep. right about war...
Mike Lehman
rebelmike at earthlink.net
Thu Sep 29 19:26:18 CDT 2011
Carl,
Always room for repentance and the embrace of new values, I suppose. But
I'm not a priest and to me this smacks more of Tim's usual pre-election
maneuvering to triangulate middle-of-the-road voters into his corner
than an epiphany.
And Tim should be worried. Wasn't Congress recently getting an approval
rating of something like 12%? That'll put religion in almost any
Congresscritter. So far, I've seen nothing that suggests Tim should be
returned to DC any more than any of the rest of them. Better to wipe the
slate clean and start over. It would be hard to do worse -- and their
replacements couldn't be more venal than the present gang.
And Tim, if you take him at his word (a few years back), is way overdue
to come home anyway, right?
But that's just a single issue -- and I'm not a single issue voter. On
almost every other issue of importance to me, Tim comes up FAIL Not
necessarily an endorsement of whoever his opponent might be, Tim's got
an uphill battle in convincing me he'd be on my side more than anyone
else. And that's just if we get trapped in the usual "less evil of two
evils" choice. If I can't hold my nose and vote -- I just don't. Damned
if I'm granting my consent to the likes of most Illinois politicians.
You're not suggesting I compromise my values to hold my nose to vote
"Tim for Peace," because it would be a slightly smaller compromise on
that than on everything else about him, are you? If so, I'm really
worried that the quality of our local curmudgeons is being compromised
by some warped desire to pick a winner, rather than hold a principled,
moral position.
Mike Lehman
On 9/29/2011 1:40 PM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
> We don't know about the state of his soul, Mike - his sincerity or
> commitment - but we do know that for some time now he's said he was
> wrong to vote for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and - even
> more importantly - has consistently voted against more money for war
> in the Mideast. He even joined Reps. Kucinich & Paul et al. in a suit
> against the illegal attack on Libya.
>
> Aren't we trying to get the members of this government, whatever their
> moral purity, to put an end to this criminal war? Vietnam ended, not
> because we elected angels, but because the same people who'd been
> there all along were forced to end it.
>
> When I ran against Tim on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, I condemned
> his apparent willingness to support it. During the campaign, I met
> privately with Tim & his people (at his invitation) to try to dissuade
> him from voting for the "Authorization for the Use of Military Force
> against Iraq." But the administration apparently sold him the
> yellow-cake story ("secret information"), & he voted for the AUMF.
>
> His subsequent declaration that he shouldn't have done so - and even
> more his consistent votes against the Bush/Obama war in the Mideast -
> shouldn't be set aside. Are we going to vote for Democrats who
> "support the president" as he continues to expand the drone attacks,
> the "special operations," the killing across SW Asia and Africa?
>
> Regards, CGE
>
> On Sep 29, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Mike Lehman wrote:
>
>> Carl,
>> 35 years of experience with the duplicitous Tim - always railing
>> against things he's in fact supported at various more politically
>> convenient times -- doesn't convince me he has much sincerity or
>> commitment to his new, now seemingly dovish position.
>> Mike Lehman
>>
>> On 9/29/2011 10:37 AM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
>>> That's an astonishing statement, Mike. Here we spend ten years
>>> trying to convince the government to cease its criminal wars, and
>>> when a congressman - no better than he should be - comes around to
>>> the correct point view, we dismiss it...?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 29, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Mike Lehman wrote:
>>>
>>>> A stopped clock is right twice a day. That hardly rates a headline
>>>> -- or a Subject line -- in my book.
>>>> Mike Lehman
>>>>
>>>> On 9/29/2011 10:06 AM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently similar in this regard to his potential Democratic
>>>>> opponents (whom he also resembles in talking nonsense about the
>>>>> deficit).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 29, 2011, at 8:56 AM, David Green wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And also unwilling to consider the implications re Israel/Palestine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* C. G. ESTABROOK <cge at shout.net <mailto:cge at shout.net>>
>>>>>> *To:* peace-discuss at anti-war.net
>>>>>> <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>>>>>> *Cc:* sf-core <sf-core at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:51 AM
>>>>>> *Subject:* [Peace-discuss] Local rep. right about war...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...but wrong about Social Security, Medicare, and the
>>>>>> deficit... --CGE]
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *Johnson stance on war draws support*
>>>>>> Wed, 09/28/2011 - 9:03pm | Tom Kacich
>>>>>> DECATUR -- About two years after he first called for the
>>>>>> withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S.
>>>>>> Rep. Tim Johnson, R-Urbana, now appears to be gaining the
>>>>>> support of his constituents.
>>>>>> Speaking to about 100 people -- nearly all white and
>>>>>> conservative -- at the Decatur Public Library, Johnson
>>>>>> received a burst of applause Wednesday evening when he again
>>>>>> called for an end to U.S. military involvement in the Middle
>>>>>> East.
>>>>>> Johnson also suggested gradually raising the retirement age
>>>>>> to strengthen Social Security and Medicare, and said he was
>>>>>> willing to look at revenue measures, not just budget cuts, to
>>>>>> reduce the federal deficit.
>>>>>> The six-term congressman criticized Democrats for not being
>>>>>> willing to make cuts in federal spending and hit Republicans
>>>>>> for supporting only "cuts in non-defense discretionary spending."
>>>>>> "That is not acceptable, ladies and gentlemen," said Johnson.
>>>>>> "I understand there are people in here who are going to
>>>>>> vehemently disagree with me and who believe that every war is
>>>>>> a good war. The reality is that by the time we will have
>>>>>> completed our quote-unquote mission -- and I don't know what
>>>>>> the mission is, ladies and gentlemen -- we will have spent
>>>>>> close to 4 trillion dollars in those wars.
>>>>>> "We cannot exclude defense from the cuts in dealing with our
>>>>>> national debt."
>>>>>> Johnson said he doesn't believe his constituents "are one
>>>>>> iota safer because we're losing thousands of American men and
>>>>>> women, and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in
>>>>>> Afghanistan and Libya and Iraq."
>>>>>> "I have consistently voted in appropriation after
>>>>>> appropriation and bill after bill to get out of Iraq and
>>>>>> Afghanistan and Libya," he said. It was at that point and
>>>>>> during other statements about defense spending that Johnson
>>>>>> received his only sustained applause during the meeting.
>>>>>> "We can't afford it in our men and women's lives, we can't
>>>>>> afford it in our infrastructure, and we can't afford it
>>>>>> fiscally," he said of the wars.
>>>>>> Following the meeting, Johnson said he was surprised by the
>>>>>> response.
>>>>>> "But generally in the public and even among the conservative
>>>>>> base, people are starting to say, why are we here? Why are we
>>>>>> spending the money? Why are we allowing men and women to be
>>>>>> killed for a mission we cannot define? I think it's critical
>>>>>> to our economic and moral future that we get out tomorrow,
>>>>>> and that we don't engage in some new stupid war the next
>>>>>> time. I'm just quoting the president."
>>>>>> On other issues, Johnson said:
>>>>>> -- He thinks Social Security and Medicare can be strengthened
>>>>>> by gradually raising the retirement age.
>>>>>> "To prevent the system from going bankrupt, there have to be
>>>>>> modest changes for new workers in the system," he said. "For
>>>>>> people who are entering the system tweaking the age of
>>>>>> retirement, when it has stayed the same for decades, makes
>>>>>> economic sense. Relatively small changes in the retirement
>>>>>> age have a dramatic effect on the fiscal soundness of Social
>>>>>> Security. I'm not suggesting we move the age to 75, but
>>>>>> moving it to 67 1/2 over a phased-in period makes economic
>>>>>> sense and moral sense."
>>>>>> He also said he wouldn't rule out the need for higher
>>>>>> contributions into the system.
>>>>>> "I'm not ruling anything out but what I'm ruling in is the
>>>>>> fact that we have to make common-sense, fair changes to
>>>>>> preserve the safety net," he said. "If we don't do that
>>>>>> there's going to be no Social Security, no Medicare for the
>>>>>> future."
>>>>>> -- He is not ruling out the need for revenue measures to cut
>>>>>> into the federal budget deficit.
>>>>>> "The revenue side of the equation has to be examined. There
>>>>>> are a number of tax loopholes that exist now, some tax breaks
>>>>>> that are being phased out that I support phasing out and
>>>>>> others that I don't. I think we need to look at the whole
>>>>>> picture. I don't think you can responsibly look at the debt
>>>>>> crisis we face without looking at every aspect of ways to
>>>>>> solve it."
>>>>>> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/politics-and-government/2011-09-28/johnson-stance-war-draws-support.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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