[Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster
E. Wayne Johnson
ewj at pigs.ag
Wed Feb 1 11:48:33 CST 2012
I dont think that partisanism is the answer at all.
It's the Evil Party and the Stupid Party and they spend a lot of time
accusing each other,
and occasionally they get together and gang up on the rest of us
and do some thing really Stupid and Evil.
On 2/2/2012 1:16 AM, Corey Mattson wrote:
> I agree with everything David Johnson says here. I'd also like to add
> a few points.
>
> First, I no longer believe the Democrats are necessarily the lesser
> evil. In the area of education, Obama is worse in that they have a
> terrible agenda that rivals the Republicans and are more likely able
> to see it through. (Still, the bureaucrats in my union, the NEA,
> tailor their politics to benefit the electoral success of their
> "friends".) This is the case in so many areas. Worse, when the
> Democrats do something crappy, because it is a Democrat who did it,
> many liberals (not all, of course) don't rise in opposition. I'm
> starting to think the Democratic Party is the greater evil for these
> reasons.
>
> Second, from my experience working with liberal friends in groups
> through the years, I've seen firsthand how their working for the
> electoral success of Democrats has stifled movements and seriously
> limited the political program of movements to fit the Democratic Party
> conservative agenda. Much energy is sucked out of movement politics
> due to electoralism, and worse, political positions often get
> determined by whether or not they might negatively affect Democratic
> politicians. (Don't oppose the war now! It might hurt Obama. Don't
> oppose current threats against Iran! After all, it might hurt Obama.)
>
> If we seriously believe that it is movements that result in real
> change, the Democratic Party is undoubtedly the single most hindrance
> to change. It's the albatross around our necks. We won't get the party
> independent of business when we vote for the Democrats year after
> year, justifying the act as meaningful, suffering defeat after defeat.
>
> I, too, disagree at any notion that it was the Naderites responsible
> for Bush or any conservative agenda. I voted for Ron Daniels in '92,
> Nader in '96, ' 00' and '04 and don't feel one bit responsible for
> Bush or any other politician. In my view, it is the strategy of
> working within the Democratic Party for change that has failed, as we
> see the political landscape continue to gravitate to the right,
> Democratic Party and all. I also think it is highly authoritarian for
> some my liberal friends (not all) to assume that the Democratic Party
> has my vote in this supposed democracy, and for them to assume as well
> that any given vote of mine is a temporary deviation. I have never
> voted for a Democrat in a national race, and my opposition was only
> strengthened after groups like Progressive Democrats for America, in
> collusion with the Democratic Party, tried to take away my vote for
> president in 2004 by kicking Nader off the ballot in some states. This
> proved, beyond all doubt, that there's very little that is democratic
> about the Democratic Party.
>
> Maybe it's easy for me to write how I feel here, even if it's a little
> too forthcoming, because I'm from BloNo and don't know that many
> people in Chambana. But I say all the above in the spirit of
> collaboration and solidarity, since I don't believe that partisan
> issues should impede movement coalitions.
>
> In solidarity, Corey
> BloNo
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:45 PM, David Johnson <dlj725 at hughes.net
> <mailto:dlj725 at hughes.net>> wrote:
>
> " Re splinter groups: the Nadarites put Bush in the White House in
> 2000 "
> Excuse me Jenifer,
> But people who voted for Nader in 2000 did NOT put Bush in the
> WhiteHouse.
> Do your homework and check out ; Greg Palast's excellent reporting
> on the disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of minority
> voters at the polls via Choicepoint Inc. among other " improper "
> ie. illegal activities in Florida via Jeb Bush's Attorney General
> Katherine Harris.
> Not to mention the U.S. Supreme Courts refusing to allow a second
> vote in Florida and APPOINTING George Bush to the Presidency.
> Last but not least, in any other democractic country in the world,
> the cheated candidate and party in a stolen election would have
> been leading massive protests in the streets and shuting down the
> country with general strikes until a another recount or election
> was held.
> But not Al Gore and the DNC. Gore rolled over when his corporate
> masters told him to and conceded without a whimper.
> And then, the DNC propoganda machine went into effect and with the
> usual ruling class technique of diversion stated : " don't blame
> the corrupt corporate system that stole an election, it was
> Nader's fault " !
> And people like you swallowed it hook, line, and sinker !
> Besides, Al Gore would have done the same policies as George Bush
> did ( invasion of Iraq, Afganistan, etc. etc. etc. ) just as Obama
> is carry forth the very same policies as George Bush and even
> expanding them.
> The same 1% ruling class control both corporate parties ( the
> repubs and the dems ).
> The only hope for electoral change in this country IS A THIRD
> PARTY that is grassroots driven and takes NO corporate money.
> OR, a take over of the democratic party, and I don't see that
> happening.
> Where were the progressive democrats in running a primary
> challenge to Obama ?
> NOBODY came forward like Cornell West BEGGED for, if for no other
> reason than to have a forum to speak out about what the majority
> of people in this country want and to put negotiation pressure on
> Obama, ESPECIALLY with all of the class inequality and anti-war
> issues the Occupy Movement was getting, even in the corporate media.
> A lost oppurtunity if I ever saw one !
> The republican debates are nothing but a circus sideshow to scare
> people like you into voting AGAIN for Obama, who broke EVERY
> campaign promise he made and has expanded the wars, corporate
> power, the dismantling of civil liberties and privacy, inequality,
> etc.
> I am PROUD that I voted for Nader in 2000 and Cynthia McKinney in
> 2008.
> My vote is too precious to EVER vote for someone who is going to
> screw me over like the war criminal, corporate whore and
> pathological liar Barack Obama.
> He is no better than the republicans, just a smoother liar, in
> fact they are ALL ( Obama, Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, et al )
> beholden to the same corporate masters and will do their bidding
> accordingly, despite their campaign rhetoric to targeted
> constituencies.
> Until people like you WAKE-UP and realize that things will NEVER
> get better voting for corporate democrats or ANY candidates that
> take corporate money, than NOTHING is going to change for the
> better in this country, and the downward spiral will continue !
> btw. I have NO Ivory Tower and never had. I just learned from
> experience, starting with Bill Clinton, that I was getting
> screwed. I see their scam and I refuse to cooperate.
> The least one can do until the revolution.
> Respectfully
> David Johnson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jenifer Cartwright <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> *To:* David Johnson <mailto:dlj725 at hughes.net> ; Morton
> KBrussel <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>
> *Cc:* Peace-discuss List
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:00 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster
>
> I've listened to every Republican debate so far (check
> YouTube for full debate for each date if you've avoided them
> so far) b/c it's the ONLY thing that makes me willing to vote
> for Obama, and maybe (hopefully) it'd be ditto for you.
> Listen to the ones on foreign issues, OMG!!! Yes, it's great
> that Paul's views on those get a forum (hopefully Obama et al
> are paying attention to who's paying attention to Paul: the
> very voters who helped him win in 2008) -- but Romney or
> Gingrich will be the nominee (w/ the truly insane and
> terrifying Santorum as veep).
> Re splinter groups: the Nadarites put Bush in the White
> House in 2000, and the Teabaggers further loused things up for
> everyone in 2010... So those unwilling to acknowledge- and
> vote for the significantly lesser of two terrible evils can do
> it again in 2012 (it's collateral damage I'm not willing to
> risk from the safety of my own ivory tower).
> --Jenifer
>
> --- On *Mon, 1/30/12, Brussel, Morton K /<brussel at illinois.edu
> <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu
> <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster
> To: "David Johnson" <dlj725 at hughes.net
> <mailto:dlj725 at hughes.net>>
> Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
> Date: Monday, January 30, 2012, 11:05 PM
>
> No disagreement from me on this, but I am at skeptical
> that your admonitions can succeed under present
> conditions. Yet, I do favor such actions.
> You may be interested in what I wrote in response to Paul
> Street's article on what to do for the coming elections:
>
> http://www.zcommunications.org/reflections-on-the-quadrennial-extravaganza-by-paul-street.
>
>
> I wrote
>
> /It takes time and special conditions to solve the
> problems we now face—injustice, inequality, and the attack
> on the globe's resources. In fact, there may well be no
> satisfactory solution at hand. None of the electoral
> alternatives discussed here seem desirable. I for one
> could never in good conscience vote for the murderous
> militaristic corporate driven Obama administration. And I
> agree that a vote for a weak third party (as per Chomsky's
> strategy) in the current state of our rigged electoral
> system would be futile. I believe that conditions will
> have to get much more dire before any mass popular
> awakening can occur. How remote this is I don't know.
> Something cataclysmic might trigger it. What one wants of
> course is to convince others that they are truly suffering
> due to the present system, in the hope that an ever
> greater enlightened majority can upset that system with
> something far better.
>
> Is the OWS movement a step in the right direction? Yes,
> but it will have to stay the course and become much more
> organized and massive to "change the course of human
> events". The forces against it are formidable. How it will
> affect the coming elections is uncertain. /
>
> --Mort
>
> On Jan 30, 2012, at 10:35 PM, David Johnson wrote:
>
>> "A good list for a fair society, but the question
>> remains: How do we get there (or even partially there)
>> from here? What is to be done? "
>> --mkb
>> Agitate, Educate, Organize, Occupy, Resist
>> David J.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Brussel, Morton K
>> <http://mc/compose?to=brussel@illinois.edu>
>> *To:* E. Wayne Johnson <http://mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag>
>> *Cc:* Peace-discuss
>> <http://mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@anti-war.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2012 10:08 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] were it not for the
>> rack monster
>>
>> A good list for a fair society, but the question
>> remains: How do we get there (or even partially
>> there) from here? What is to be done?
>> --mkb
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2012, at 7:20 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> "I'd start a r[3vol]ution...if I could get up in the
>>> morning" - Aimee Allen
>>>
>>> *
>>> I found this piece in Common Dreams this morning and
>>> find several good points here,
>>> and it might be an interesting discussion piece.
>>>
>>>
>>> Published on Monday, January 23, 2012 by Common
>>> Dreams <http://www.commondreams.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ten Steps for Radical Revolution in the US
>>>
>>> by Bill Quigley
>>> <http://www.commondreams.org/bill-quigley>
>>>
>>> /“I am convinced that if we are to get on the right
>>> side of the world revolution, we as a nation must
>>> undergo a radical revolution of values.” /*--Dr.
>>> Martin Luther King, Jr. 1967*
>>>
>>> *One.* Human rights must be taken absolutely
>>> seriously. Every single person is entitled to
>>> dignity and human rights. No application needed. No
>>> exclusions at all. This is our highest priority.
>>>
>>> *Two.* We must radically reinvent contemporary
>>> democracy. Current systems are deeply corrupt and
>>> not responsive to the needs of people.
>>> Representatives chosen by money and influence govern
>>> by money and influence. This is unacceptable. Direct
>>> democracy by the people is now technologically
>>> possible and should be the rule. Communities must be
>>> protected whenever they advocate for
>>> self-determination, self-development and human
>>> rights. Dissent is essential to democracy; we pledge
>>> to help it flourish.
>>>
>>> *Three.* Corporations are not people and are not
>>> entitled to human rights. Amend the US Constitution
>>> so it is clear corporations do not have
>>> constitutional or human rights. We the people must
>>> cut them down to size and so democracy can regulate
>>> their size, scope and actions.
>>>
>>> *Four.* Leave the rest of the world alone. Cut US
>>> military spending by 75 percent and bring all troops
>>> outside the US home now. Defense of the US is a
>>> human right. Global offense and global police force
>>> by US military are not. Eliminate all nuclear and
>>> chemical and biological weapons. Stop allowing scare
>>> tactics to build up the national security forces at
>>> home. Stop the myth that the US is somehow special
>>> or exceptional and is entitled to act differently
>>> than all other nations. The US must re-join the
>>> global family of nations as a respectful partner.
>>> USA is one of many nations in the world. We must
>>> start acting like it.
>>>
>>> *Five.* Property rights, privilege, and money-making
>>> are not as important as human rights. When current
>>> property and privilege arrangements are not just
>>> they must yield to the demands of human rights.
>>> Money-making can only be allowed when human rights
>>> are respected. Exploitation is unacceptable. There
>>> are national and global poverty lines. We must
>>> establish national and global excess lines so that
>>> people and businesses with extra houses, cars,
>>> luxuries, and incomes share much more to help
>>> everyone else be able to exercise their basic human
>>> rights to shelter, food, education and healthcare.
>>> If that disrupts current property, privilege and
>>> money-making, so be it.
>>>
>>> *Six.* Defend our earth. Stop pollution, stop
>>> pipelines, stop new interstates, and stop destroying
>>> the land, sea, and air by extracting resources from
>>> them. Rebuild what we have destroyed. If
>>> corporations will not stop voluntarily, people must
>>> stop them. The very existence of life is at stake.
>>>
>>> We respect the human rights and human dignity of
>>> others and work for a world where love and wisdom
>>> and solidarity and respect prevail.
>>>
>>> *Seven.* Dramatically expand public spaces and
>>> reverse the privatization of public services.
>>> Quality public education, health and safety for all
>>> must be provided by transparent accountable public
>>> systems. Starving the state is a recipe for
>>> destroying social and economic human rights for
>>> everyone but the rich.
>>>
>>> *Eight.* Pull the criminal legal prison system up
>>> and out by its roots and start over. Cease the
>>> criminalization of drugs, immigrants, poor people
>>> and people of color. We are all entitled to be safe
>>> but the current system makes us less so and ruins
>>> millions of lives. Start over.
>>>
>>> *Nine.* The US was created based on two original
>>> crimes that must be confessed and made right.
>>> Reparations are owed to Native Americans because
>>> their land was stolen and they were uprooted and
>>> slaughtered. Reparations are owed to African
>>> Americans because they were kidnapped, enslaved and
>>> abused. The US has profited widely from these
>>> injustices and must make amends.
>>>
>>> *Ten.* Everyone who wants to work should have the
>>> right to work and earn a living wage. Any workers
>>> who want to organize and advocate for change in
>>> solidarity with others must be absolutely protected
>>> from recriminations from their employer and from
>>> their government.
>>>
>>> Finally, if those in government and those in power
>>> do not help the people do what is right, people
>>> seeking change must together exercise our human
>>> rights and bring about these changes directly. Dr.
>>> King and millions of others lived and worked for a
>>> radical revolution of values. We will as well. We
>>> respect the human rights and human dignity of others
>>> and work for a world where love and wisdom and
>>> solidarity and respect prevail. We expect those for
>>> whom the current unjust system works just fine will
>>> object and oppose and accuse people seeking dramatic
>>> change of being divisive and worse. That is to be
>>> expected because that is what happens to all groups
>>> which work for serious social change. Despite that,
>>> people will continue to go forward with
>>> determination and purpose to bring about a radical
>>> revolution of values in the USA.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt
>>> from "mc" claiming to be*
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> <http://mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>
>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt
>> from "mc" claiming to be*
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> <http://mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>
>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
> "mc" claiming to be* Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <http://mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>
> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20120202/45531f44/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Peace-discuss
mailing list