[Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster

Wed Feb 1 11:16:35 CST 2012

I agree with everything David Johnson says here. I'd also like to add a few
points.

First, I no longer believe the Democrats are necessarily the lesser evil.
In the area of education, Obama is worse in that they have a terrible
agenda that rivals the Republicans and are more likely able to see it
through. (Still, the bureaucrats in my union, the NEA, tailor their
politics to benefit the electoral success of their "friends".) This is the
case in so many areas. Worse, when the Democrats do something crappy,
because it is a Democrat who did it, many liberals (not all, of course)
don't rise in opposition. I'm starting to think the Democratic Party is the
greater evil for these reasons.

Second, from my experience working with liberal friends in groups through
the years, I've seen firsthand how their working for the electoral success
of Democrats has stifled movements and seriously limited the political
program of movements to fit the Democratic Party conservative agenda. Much
energy is sucked out of movement politics due to electoralism, and worse,
political positions often get determined by whether or not they might
negatively affect Democratic politicians. (Don't oppose the war now! It
might hurt Obama. Don't oppose current threats against Iran! After all, it
might hurt Obama.)

If we seriously believe that it is movements that result in real change,
the Democratic Party is undoubtedly the single most hindrance to change.
It's the albatross around our necks. We won't get the party independent of
business when we vote for the Democrats year after year, justifying the act
as meaningful, suffering defeat after defeat.

I, too, disagree at any notion that it was the Naderites responsible for
Bush or any conservative agenda. I voted for Ron Daniels in '92, Nader in
'96, ' 00' and '04 and don't feel one bit responsible for Bush or any other
politician. In my view, it is the strategy of working within the Democratic
Party for change that has failed, as we see the political landscape
continue to gravitate to the right, Democratic Party and all. I also think
it is highly authoritarian for some my liberal friends (not all) to assume
that the Democratic Party has my vote in this supposed democracy, and for
them to assume as well that any given vote of mine is a temporary
deviation. I have never voted for a Democrat in a national race, and my
opposition was only strengthened after groups like Progressive Democrats
for America, in collusion with the Democratic Party, tried to take away my
vote for president in 2004 by kicking Nader off the ballot in some states.
This proved, beyond all doubt, that there's very little that is democratic
about the Democratic Party.

Maybe it's easy for me to write how I feel here, even if it's a little too
forthcoming, because I'm from BloNo and don't know that many people in
Chambana. But I say all the above in the spirit of collaboration and
solidarity, since I don't believe that partisan issues should impede
movement coalitions.

In solidarity, Corey
BloNo

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:45 PM, David Johnson <dlj725 at hughes.net> wrote:

> **
> " Re splinter groups: the Nadarites put Bush in the White House in 2000 "
>
> Excuse me Jenifer,
>
> But people who voted for Nader in 2000 did NOT put Bush in the WhiteHouse.
>
> Do your homework and check out ; Greg Palast's excellent reporting on the
> disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of minority voters at the polls
> via Choicepoint Inc. among other " improper " ie. illegal activities in
> Florida via Jeb Bush's Attorney General Katherine Harris.
> Not to mention the U.S. Supreme Courts refusing to allow a second vote in
> Florida and APPOINTING George Bush to the Presidency.
> Last but not least, in any other democractic country in the world, the
> cheated candidate and party in a stolen election would have been leading
> massive protests in the streets and shuting down the country with general
> strikes until a another recount or election was held.
> But not Al Gore and the DNC. Gore rolled over when his corporate masters
> told him to and conceded without a whimper.
> And then, the DNC propoganda machine went into effect and with the usual
> ruling class technique of diversion stated : " don't blame the
> corrupt corporate system that stole an election, it was Nader's fault " !
> And people like you swallowed it hook, line, and sinker !
>
>
> Besides, Al Gore would have done the same policies as George Bush did (
> invasion of Iraq, Afganistan, etc. etc. etc. ) just as Obama is carry forth
> the very same policies as George Bush and even expanding them.
> The same 1% ruling class control both corporate parties ( the repubs and
> the dems ).
>
> The only hope for electoral change in this country IS A THIRD PARTY that
> is grassroots driven and takes NO corporate money.
> OR, a take over of the democratic party, and I don't see that happening.
> Where were the progressive democrats in running a primary challenge to
> Obama ?
> NOBODY came forward like Cornell West BEGGED for, if for no other reason
> than to have a forum to speak out about what the majority of people in this
> country want and to put negotiation pressure on Obama, ESPECIALLY with all
> of the class inequality and anti-war issues the Occupy Movement was
> getting, even in the corporate media.
> A lost oppurtunity if I ever saw one !
>
> The republican debates are nothing but a circus sideshow to scare people
> like you into voting AGAIN for Obama, who broke EVERY campaign promise he
> made and has expanded the wars, corporate power, the dismantling of civil
> liberties and privacy, inequality, etc.
>
> I am PROUD that I voted for Nader in 2000 and Cynthia McKinney in 2008.
> My vote is too precious to EVER vote for someone who is going to screw me
> over like the war criminal, corporate whore and pathological liar Barack
> Obama.
> He is no better than the republicans, just a smoother liar, in fact they
> are ALL ( Obama, Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, et al ) beholden to the same
> corporate masters and will do their bidding accordingly, despite their
> campaign rhetoric to targeted constituencies.
>
> Until people like you WAKE-UP and realize that things will NEVER get
> better voting for corporate democrats or ANY candidates that take corporate
> money, than NOTHING is going to change for the better in this country, and
> the downward spiral will continue !
>
> btw. I have NO Ivory Tower and never had. I just learned from experience,
> starting with Bill Clinton, that I was getting screwed. I see their scam
> and I refuse to cooperate.
> The least one can do until the revolution.
>
> Respectfully
>
> David Johnson
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> *To:* David Johnson <dlj725 at hughes.net> ; Morton KBrussel<brussel at illinois.edu>
> *Cc:* Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:00 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster
>
>        I've listened to every Republican debate so far (check YouTube for
> full debate for each date if you've avoided them so far) b/c it's the ONLY
> thing that makes me willing to vote for Obama,  and maybe (hopefully) it'd
> be ditto for you. Listen to the ones on foreign issues, OMG!!! Yes, it's
> great that Paul's views on those get a forum (hopefully Obama et al are
> paying attention to who's paying attention to Paul: the very voters who
> helped him win in 2008) -- but Romney or Gingrich will be the nominee (w/
> the truly insane and terrifying Santorum as veep).
>      Re splinter groups: the Nadarites put Bush in the White House in
> 2000, and the Teabaggers further loused things up for everyone in 2010...
> So those unwilling to acknowledge- and vote for the significantly lesser of
> two terrible evils can do it again in 2012 (it's collateral damage I'm not
> willing to risk from the safety of my own ivory tower).
>  --Jenifer
>
> --- On *Mon, 1/30/12, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster
> To: "David Johnson" <dlj725 at hughes.net>
> Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Monday, January 30, 2012, 11:05 PM
>
>  No disagreement from me on this, but I am at skeptical that your
> admonitions can succeed under present conditions. Yet, I do favor such
> actions.
> You may be interested in what I wrote in response to Paul Street's article
> on what to do for the coming elections:
>
>
> http://www.zcommunications.org/reflections-on-the-quadrennial-extravaganza-by-paul-street.
>
>
> I wrote
>
> *It takes time and special conditions to solve the problems we now
> face—injustice, inequality, and the attack on the globe's resources.  In
> fact, there may well be no satisfactory solution at hand. None of the
> electoral alternatives discussed here seem desirable. I  for one could
> never in good conscience vote for the murderous militaristic corporate
> driven Obama administration. And I agree that a vote for a weak third party
> (as per Chomsky's strategy) in the current state of our rigged electoral
> system would be futile. I believe that conditions will have to get much
> more dire before any mass  popular awakening can occur. How remote this is
> I don't know. Something cataclysmic might trigger it.  What one wants of
> course is to convince others that they are truly suffering due to the
> present system, in the hope that an ever greater enlightened majority can
> upset that system with something far better.
>
> Is the OWS movement a step in the right direction? Yes, but it will have
> to stay the course and become much more organized and massive to "change
> the course of human events". The forces against it are formidable. How it
> will affect the coming elections is uncertain. *
>
> --Mort
>
>  On Jan 30, 2012, at 10:35 PM, David Johnson wrote:
>
>   "A good list for a fair society, but the question remains: How do we
> get there (or even partially there) from here? What is to be done? "
> --mkb
>
> Agitate, Educate, Organize, Occupy, Resist
>
>
> David J.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Brussel, Morton K <http://mc/compose?to=brussel@illinois.edu>
> *To:* E. Wayne Johnson <http://mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag>
> *Cc:* Peace-discuss <http://mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@anti-war.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2012 10:08 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster
>
>  A good list for a fair society, but the question remains: How do we get
> there (or even partially there) from here? What is to be done?
> --mkb
>
>  On Jan 30, 2012, at 7:20 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
>
>  "I'd start a r[3vol]ution...if I could get up in the morning" - Aimee
> Allen
>
> *
> I found this piece in Common Dreams this morning and find several good
> points here,
> and it might be an interesting discussion piece.
>
>
> Published on Monday, January 23, 2012 by Common Dreams<http://www.commondreams.org/>
> Ten Steps for Radical Revolution in the US
> by Bill Quigley <http://www.commondreams.org/bill-quigley>
>
> *“I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world
> revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values.” *
> *--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 1967*
>
> *One.* Human rights must be taken absolutely seriously. Every single
> person is entitled to dignity and human rights. No application needed. No
> exclusions at all. This is our highest priority.
>
> *Two.* We must radically reinvent contemporary democracy. Current systems
> are deeply corrupt and not responsive to the needs of people.
> Representatives chosen by money and influence govern by money and
> influence. This is unacceptable. Direct democracy by the people is now
> technologically possible and should be the rule. Communities must be
> protected whenever they advocate for self-determination, self-development
> and human rights. Dissent is essential to democracy; we pledge to help it
> flourish.
>
> *Three.* Corporations are not people and are not entitled to human
> rights. Amend the US Constitution so it is clear corporations do not have
> constitutional or human rights. We the people must cut them down to size
> and so democracy can regulate their size, scope and actions.
>
> *Four.* Leave the rest of the world alone. Cut US military spending by 75
> percent and bring all troops outside the US home now. Defense of the US is
> a human right. Global offense and global police force by US military are
> not. Eliminate all nuclear and chemical and biological weapons. Stop
> allowing scare tactics to build up the national security forces at home.
> Stop the myth that the US is somehow special or exceptional and is entitled
> to act differently than all other nations. The US must re-join the global
> family of nations as a respectful partner. USA is one of many nations in
> the world. We must start acting like it.
>
> *Five.* Property rights, privilege, and money-making are not as important
> as human rights. When current property and privilege arrangements are not
> just they must yield to the demands of human rights. Money-making can only
> be allowed when human rights are respected. Exploitation is unacceptable.
> There are national and global poverty lines. We must establish national and
> global excess lines so that people and businesses with extra houses, cars,
> luxuries, and incomes share much more to help everyone else be able to
> exercise their basic human rights to shelter, food, education and
> healthcare. If that disrupts current property, privilege and money-making,
> so be it.
>
> *Six.* Defend our earth. Stop pollution, stop pipelines, stop new
> interstates, and stop destroying the land, sea, and air by extracting
> resources from them. Rebuild what we have destroyed. If corporations will
> not stop voluntarily, people must stop them. The very existence of life is
> at stake.
>
> We respect the human rights and human dignity of others and work for a
> world where love and wisdom and solidarity and respect prevail.
>
> *Seven.* Dramatically expand public spaces and reverse the privatization
> of public services. Quality public education, health and safety for all
> must be provided by transparent accountable public systems. Starving the
> state is a recipe for destroying social and economic human rights for
> everyone but the rich.
>
> *Eight.* Pull the criminal legal prison system up and out by its roots
> and start over. Cease the criminalization of drugs, immigrants, poor people
> and people of color. We are all entitled to be safe but the current system
> makes us less so and ruins millions of lives. Start over.
>
> *Nine.* The US was created based on two original crimes that must be
> confessed and made right. Reparations are owed to Native Americans because
> their land was stolen and they were uprooted and slaughtered. Reparations
> are owed to African Americans because they were kidnapped, enslaved and
> abused. The US has profited widely from these injustices and must make
> amends.
>
> *Ten.* Everyone who wants to work should have the right to work and earn
> a living wage. Any workers who want to organize and advocate for change in
> solidarity with others must be absolutely protected from recriminations
> from their employer and from their government.
>
> Finally, if those in government and those in power do not help the people
> do what is right, people seeking change must together exercise our human
> rights and bring about these changes directly. Dr. King and millions of
> others lived and worked for a radical revolution of values. We will as
> well. We respect the human rights and human dignity of others and work for
> a world where love and wisdom and solidarity and respect prevail. We expect
> those for whom the current unjust system works just fine will object and
> oppose and accuse people seeking dramatic change of being divisive and
> worse. That is to be expected because that is what happens to all groups
> which work for serious social change. Despite that, people will continue to
> go forward with determination and purpose to bring about a radical
> revolution of values in the USA.
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