[Peace-discuss] Fw: Fwd: Hate will not prevail in C-U

Thu Feb 16 13:52:40 CST 2012

What a passionate and lyrical longing for justice! Stuart, I wish you would
publish that in some place with a little more shelf life, perhaps a
website. (IMC?), perhaps a newspaper or magazine (with a front explaining
the context) . BArbara

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com> wrote:

>  FWIW, I didn't find anything antisemitic in Braverman's comments, either
> -- neither in his Focus 580 interview nor at the Champaign Library.
>
> He sounded more like a prophet calling the people to righteousness.
> Since when has that been a comfortable thing to hear?
>
> I keep thinking of one of the many people Amos Oz interviewed in his book,
> In the Land of Israel.   An Israeli Jewish farmer, this man put the
> situation plainly: what his generation should do, he said, was to drive the
> Arabs out, by whatever means.  Their descendents would feel guilty for what
> their parents had done, but no matter -- the land would be theirs.
>
> We in the US are in the position of those descendants.  Collectively, our
> European ancestors, whether they had the farmer's historical vision or not,
> massacred the people and stole the land from the Native Americans who lived
> here before we did, and stole the labor and the lives of generations of
> African slaves, to build the wealthy country where we live now.   Those
> people could be used or displaced or killed, because they were contemptible
> and they were dangerous.
>
> This heritage is a terrible pall for us to live under who recognize it.
> And the forms of thinking that shaped that pall remain with us, as we
> imprison more of our population than any other country, or as we make wars
> to secure access to oil under other countries' land and tell ourselves that
> that their people hate what we stand for and that they put us, the world's
> superpower, in mortal danger.
>
> Though Braverman didn't put it in the way I'm saying above, I see him as
> calling on the Jews of Israel not to follow our example.  And I think that
> talking in these terms might let some people hear his message who would
> otherwise not begin to listen.
>
> Braverman did say, among many other things: We must identify ourselves
> universally with human suffering, speaking truth to power, confronting the
> kings.  Those are Jewish values.  To tell ourselves that we can only be
> Jewish by walling ourselves up lifelong, surrounded by walls and guards,
> forever telling ourselves that everything outside is deadly, that is
> soul-destroying.   (Being surrounded by murderous rabble had been his
> grandmother's reality in Europe.  It is not so today, but the psychology of
> it remains.  We can't move on.)
>
> How can we expect the Israeli Jews to give up the privileges they have in
> a Jewish state?   (What group can we show as example which has willingly
> given up its privileges, as we in the US have not?)    Braverman's reply
> was the most heartening thing I'd heard in a long time: they wouldn't have
> to.  An open society in Israel of Jews and Muslims and Christians, relieved
> of its burden of militarization and fear, would be a vibrant one, in which
> everyone would gain, compared with what they have today.
>
> But it will be a long road to get there - compared to that, South Africans
> say, what they went through was a walk in the park.
>
>
> On 2/15/12 8:30 AM, David Green wrote:
>
>  http://will.illinois.edu/focus/monthly/2012/02/
>
> You can listen to his interview with David Inge. Neither there nor on
> Saturday morning did I find any evidence for any form of anti-semitism.
> Apparently, he feels that Jews during the time of Jesus would have been
> better off if they had joined him in challenging the Romans. That I suppose
> is a pretty controversial thing to say, and perhaps the historical
> counter-factual that leads from that is also controversial. He refers to a
> history of Jewish exceptionalism, that is now on display in a negative way
> in Israel. But given his own background, his informed understanding of
> what's going on in I/P, and his genuine concern for Israeli Jews, there's
> nothing anti-semitic about any of this.
>
> DG
>
>    *From:* Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu><galliher at illinois.edu>
> *To:* David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net><peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:07 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Fwd: Hate will not prevail in C-U
>
> "...Hillel is working to address this visit with U of I's administration
> and the other groups that sponsored the visit..."
>
> That's a threat of censorship and suppression of views on a university
> campus that is thoroughly McCarthyist. There should not be less free speech
> in the university than there is in society as a whole; if you don't believe
> in free speech for ideas you despise, you don't believe in it at all.
>
> Instead of trying to prevent the expression of Mr. Braverman's views, we
> should be setting out and evaluating them.  Is a transcript of his talk or
> an article by him available?  --CGE
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2012, at 9:05 PM, David Green wrote:
>
> > As Braverman said on Saturday morning, the battle is joined.
>
>
> > ----- Forwarded Message -----
> > From: Chris Tuck <christuck911 at gmail.com>
> > To: Priscilla Christians <p_christians at yahoo.com>; David Green <
> davegreen84 at yahoo.com>; John Setterlund <john.setterlund at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:14 PM
> > Subject: Fwd: Hate will not prevail in C-U
> > This absurd statement deserves a response..
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------From: Rogerio Z. Cukierman -
> Illini Hillel <rogerio at illinihillel.org> Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:50
> AMSubject: Hate will not prevail in C-UTo: chris_91187 at cox.net
> > Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
> >
> > Hillel Foundation at the University of Illinois
> > Cohen Center for Jewish Life
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Christopher,
> > Last Friday and Saturday, anti-Israel activist Mark Braverman visited
> the University of Illinois and the Champaign-Urbana community. Hillel had
> been aware of the visit and had been working in partnership with other
> organizations to mitigate its impact. But as familiar as we were with the
> nature of the things he is fond of saying, we were still stunned by the
> intensity of Mr. Braverman's remarks against the State of Israel, the
> American Jewish community and Judaism itself. The hate rhetoric adopted by
> Mr. Braverman is unacceptable and it does not belong in our community.
> >
> > I am writing to assure you that Hillel is working to address this visit
> with U of I's administration and the other groups that sponsored the visit.
> At the same time, we are concerned with the well-being of our students,
> some of whom felt personally attacked by Mr. Braverman's vicious words. All
> of our staff is available to talk to you at any time if you feel the need -
> this is our number one priority right now. Just contact one of us by phone,
> email or facebook, and we will make the time to meet with you.
> >
> > Hate will not determine how we live in Champaign-Urbana!
> >
> > Le'Shalom (in peace)
> >
> > Rogerio
> > -------------------------------
> > Rabbi Rogerio Z. Cukierman
> > Executive Director
> > Hillel at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
> > rogerio at illinihillel.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Forward this email
> >
> >
> > This email was sent to chris_91187 at cox.net by rogerio at illinihillel.org |
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> > UIUC Hillel | Margie K. and Louis N. Cohen Center for Jewish Life | 503
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> > --Chris Tuck
> >
> >
> > -- Chris Tuck
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