[Peace-discuss] Fw: Fwd: Hate will not prevail in C-U

Stuart Levy stuartnlevy at gmail.com
Thu Feb 16 06:18:48 CST 2012 

FWIW, I didn't find anything antisemitic in Braverman's comments, either 
-- neither in his Focus 580 interview nor at the Champaign Library.

He sounded more like a prophet calling the people to righteousness.   
Since when has that been a comfortable thing to hear?

I keep thinking of one of the many people Amos Oz interviewed in his 
book, In the Land of Israel.   An Israeli Jewish farmer, this man put 
the situation plainly: what his generation should do, he said, was to 
drive the Arabs out, by whatever means.  Their descendents would feel 
guilty for what their parents had done, but no matter -- the land would 
be theirs.

We in the US are in the position of those descendants.  Collectively, 
our European ancestors, whether they had the farmer's historical vision 
or not, massacred the people and stole the land from the Native 
Americans who lived here before we did, and stole the labor and the 
lives of generations of African slaves, to build the wealthy country 
where we live now.   Those people could be used or displaced or killed, 
because they were contemptible and they were dangerous.

This heritage is a terrible pall for us to live under who recognize 
it.   And the forms of thinking that shaped that pall remain with us, as 
we imprison more of our population than any other country, or as we make 
wars to secure access to oil under other countries' land and tell 
ourselves that that their people hate what we stand for and that they 
put us, the world's superpower, in mortal danger.

Though Braverman didn't put it in the way I'm saying above, I see him as 
calling on the Jews of Israel not to follow our example.  And I think 
that talking in these terms might let some people hear his message who 
would otherwise not begin to listen.

Braverman did say, among many other things: We must identify ourselves 
universally with human suffering, speaking truth to power, confronting 
the kings.  Those are Jewish values.  To tell ourselves that we can only 
be Jewish by walling ourselves up lifelong, surrounded by walls and 
guards, forever telling ourselves that everything outside is deadly, 
that is soul-destroying.   (Being surrounded by murderous rabble had 
been his grandmother's reality in Europe.  It is not so today, but the 
psychology of it remains.  We can't move on.)

How can we expect the Israeli Jews to give up the privileges they have 
in a Jewish state?   (What group can we show as example which has 
willingly given up its privileges, as we in the US have not?)    
Braverman's reply was the most heartening thing I'd heard in a long 
time: they wouldn't have to.  An open society in Israel of Jews and 
Muslims and Christians, relieved of its burden of militarization and 
fear, would be a vibrant one, in which everyone would gain, compared 
with what they have today.

But it will be a long road to get there - compared to that, South 
Africans say, what they went through was a walk in the park.

On 2/15/12 8:30 AM, David Green wrote:
> http://will.illinois.edu/focus/monthly/2012/02/
> You can listen to his interview with David Inge. Neither there nor on 
> Saturday morning did I find any evidence for any form of 
> anti-semitism. Apparently, he feels that Jews during the time of Jesus 
> would have been better off if they had joined him in challenging the 
> Romans. That I suppose is a pretty controversial thing to say, and 
> perhaps the historical counter-factual that leads from that is also 
> controversial. He refers to a history of Jewish exceptionalism, that 
> is now on display in a negative way in Israel. But given his own 
> background, his informed understanding of what's going on in I/P, and 
> his genuine concern for Israeli Jews, there's nothing anti-semitic 
> about any of this.
> DG
>
>     *From:* Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
>     *To:* David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>     *Cc:* Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:07 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Fwd: Hate will not prevail in C-U
>
>     "...Hillel is working to address this visit with U of I's
>     administration and the other groups that sponsored the visit..."
>
>     That's a threat of censorship and suppression of views on a
>     university campus that is thoroughly McCarthyist. There should not
>     be less free speech in the university than there is in society as
>     a whole; if you don't believe in free speech for ideas you
>     despise, you don't believe in it at all.
>
>     Instead of trying to prevent the expression of Mr. Braverman's
>     views, we should be setting out and evaluating them.  Is a
>     transcript of his talk or an article by him available?  --CGE
>
>
>     On Feb 14, 2012, at 9:05 PM, David Green wrote:
>
>     > As Braverman said on Saturday morning, the battle is joined.
>
>
>     > ----- Forwarded Message -----
>     > From: Chris Tuck <christuck911 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:christuck911 at gmail.com>>
>     > To: Priscilla Christians <p_christians at yahoo.com
>     <mailto:p_christians at yahoo.com>>; David Green
>     <davegreen84 at yahoo.com <mailto:davegreen84 at yahoo.com>>; John
>     Setterlund <john.setterlund at gmail.com
>     <mailto:john.setterlund at gmail.com>>
>     > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:14 PM
>     > Subject: Fwd: Hate will not prevail in C-U
>     > This absurd statement deserves a response..
>     > ---------- Forwarded message ----------From: Rogerio Z.
>     Cukierman - Illini Hillel <rogerio at illinihillel.org
>     <mailto:rogerio at illinihillel.org>> Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at
>     11:50 AMSubject: Hate will not prevail in C-UTo:
>     chris_91187 at cox.net <mailto:chris_91187 at cox.net>
>     > Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
>     >
>     > Hillel Foundation at the University of Illinois
>     > Cohen Center for Jewish Life
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Dear Christopher,
>     > Last Friday and Saturday, anti-Israel activist Mark Braverman
>     visited the University of Illinois and the Champaign-Urbana
>     community. Hillel had been aware of the visit and had been working
>     in partnership with other organizations to mitigate its impact.
>     But as familiar as we were with the nature of the things he is
>     fond of saying, we were still stunned by the intensity of Mr.
>     Braverman's remarks against the State of Israel, the American
>     Jewish community and Judaism itself. The hate rhetoric adopted by
>     Mr. Braverman is unacceptable and it does not belong in our community.
>     >
>     > I am writing to assure you that Hillel is working to address
>     this visit with U of I's administration and the other groups that
>     sponsored the visit. At the same time, we are concerned with the
>     well-being of our students, some of whom felt personally attacked
>     by Mr. Braverman's vicious words. All of our staff is available to
>     talk to you at any time if you feel the need - this is our number
>     one priority right now. Just contact one of us by phone, email or
>     facebook, and we will make the time to meet with you.
>     >
>     > Hate will not determine how we live in Champaign-Urbana!
>     >
>     > Le'Shalom (in peace)
>     >
>     > Rogerio
>     > -------------------------------
>     > Rabbi Rogerio Z. Cukierman
>     > Executive Director
>     > Hillel at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
>     > rogerio at illinihillel.org <mailto:rogerio at illinihillel.org>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
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>     >
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>     >
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>     >
>     > Forward this email
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>     >
>     > This email was sent to chris_91187 at cox.net
>     <mailto:chris_91187 at cox.net> by rogerio at illinihillel.org
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>     > UIUC Hillel | Margie K. and Louis N. Cohen Center for Jewish
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>     > --Chris Tuck
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>     > -- Chris Tuck
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