[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] My Resignation From the Occupy CUListserv

Sun Nov 18 21:04:45 UTC 2012

David,
I think that we need a bit thicker skin to get along with one another.

You know, I am not offended at all by being called a bigot or analogized 
to some sort of sphincter. It dont mean shee-it to me.

It was Sarah not Rachel that I made the "Man up" statement toward.  It 
seemed way too obvious to let it just slide by.  Also there is no doubt 
that I take some enjoyment from their
too predictable "reaction", but really I think some of the people take 
themselves far too seriously.

Well the truth is that I typed it but thought to retract it but hit send 
instead and then I thought... well so what.

Some one used the terms Sister Sandpaper and Brother Rasp to describe 
the work that needs to be done to approach interpersonal relations.

Actually I recall that you and I had some pretty harsh words before we 
realized that we had a lot more in common than we at first thought.

Rachel wrote to me and among other things wondered why I should give a 
ripe red one about what happens in the USA particularly since I have 
emigrated.  Well I do still hold an American Passport (it aint so easy 
to do without it) and like some other ex-patriateds
like Max Keiser and WilliamBanzai7 (who live in Paris, and HongKong, 
respectively) I still have some interest in seeing some problems fixed. 
  It's hard to say that what happens in
the USA doesnt matter.

It's a good thing that I wasnt there for the Occupy uprising.  If they 
had come at me and my comrades with pepper spray today, I'd be back with 
something more substantialtomorrow.  Maybe not a gun, but probably 
enough to get me put in the pokey.  At least a cudgel of some sort.  And 
that would no doubt have been a bad idea, and I really do hate being 
arrested.

So while my comment may have been on the edge or maybe over the edge,
I certainly am not going to retract it, and I think that even the most 
whiny of them know exactly what I meant, and they ought not say that it 
was sexist.

Wayne

On 11/17/12 9:50, David Johnson wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> I understand what you are saying, that in other words many of us need
> to have a little more " thick skin " in order to withstand the truely
> evil and vicious 1%.
> That if and when we begin to successfully challenge the power and
> privaledge of the 1 %, all hell is going to rain down upon us and we
> better be ready and battle hardened.
>
> However, before we can even think about getting to the point of truely
> challenging the 1% and hence them taken us seriously, we need to have
> a " community " or " clan " or " brotherhood / sisterhood " or " Union
> " ( in a sense ).
> That is, we need to ; trust and respect each other, and have each
> others back and fight if necessary to protect each other in the face
> of repression, even if some of us may not like certain people or agree
> with certain people within our " community ".
> It is one thing to take blows from your oppressor, but another to be
> insulted and / or attacked from within your " community ".
> Wayne, you crossed the line when you made the " cajones " statement to
> Rachael.
> But you are not alone.
> Others on this list have insulted, stereotyped and villanized Jesse
> for his opinions about the 9/11 attacks, calling him a racist, a
> fascist and an anti-semite, even after Jesse emphaticly stated that he
> was none of the above.
>
> So let me ask all of you this.....
>
> Do we want to find our common concerns and issues, accentuate the
> positive and minimize the negatives by being tolerant of our
> differences of opinion and perspective ?
>
> Or do we do what the 1 % expects and hopes for, which is that we
> divide ourselves and hence be the stupid petty sheep that they
> perceive us to be ?
>
> Sincerely with all due respect to everyone, including those I have
> disagreed with in the past and present.
>
> David Johnson
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: ""E. Wayne Johnson ???""
> <ewj at pigsqq.org>
> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "Sarah
> Lazare" <sarah.lazare at gmail.com>; <OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 4:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] My Resignation From the Occupy
> CUListserv
>
>
>> One really cannot fault Stuart in this matter or his efforts to
>> maintain the group.
>>
>> But really what I was getting at is the fact that if one wants to
>> make a difference,
>> you are going to have to be able to stand up to some wind and rain,
>> criticism,
>> opposition, and less than desirable outcomes at times.  Ya just can't
>> let that
>> stuff bother you too much if you have your eyes on some goal.
>>
>> All of this whining about "Oh my, I am So offended by your words
>> and your lack of sensitivity.  I am so going to get off this listserv.
>> It is soooo over."
>>
>> "Oh, I am such a victim..."
>>
>> Some one else wants to point out another way in which the mass of us
>> may have been victimized
>> and he is blasted as a anti-semitic fascist bigot, or maybe just an
>> idiot with a weak mind.
>>
>> Seriously, folks.
>> All this moaning and staling doesnt cut any ice at all with
>> the problems at hand.
>>
>> One could make the observation that some backbone is needed.
>> Not every one understands feminist rhetoric and its special
>> vocabularies.
>>
>> "I feel so triggered.  Oh my you have ruined my day for me."
>>
>> "Oooooh.  How could you be sooooo obnoxious."
>>
>> Olivia, bring me my barf bag.
>>
>> It's so easy to say "oh, i cant stand this. I am going to quit."
>>
>> Try this one:  "Quit you as men."
>>
>> Hint:  It's not at all "sexist".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/17/12 1:44, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>> Stuart--
>>>
>>> I think it's a mistake to give in to Identity Politics' taste for
>>> censorship.
>>>
>>> It's a mark of the (self-imposed) weakness of liberalism over the
>>> last generation, that it's given up real attempts to stop wrong
>>> things from being done - and instead turned to furious attempts to
>>> make sure wrong things aren't said. (Cf. Hedges' 'Death of the
>>> Liberal Class.')
>>>
>>> The local Occupy group has seemed to me particularly susceptible to
>>> this error (and it's hardly alone).
>>>
>>> I do trust however you won't remove Wayne from the peace lists,
>>> whatever his sins against decorum.
>>>
>>> Stopping taunting (if that's what it is) in a political group is no
>>> substitute for stopping murder by a president. The morning headlines
>>> show us again how much needs to be done there.
>>>
>>> Regards, Carl
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:41 PM, Stuart Levy<stuartnlevy at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wayne,
>>>>
>>>> Look.  You can do better than this.   You're too often acting in
>>>> this forum like a childish bully, taunting some of the best
>>>> activists I know. Why?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you're testing the system.   If so, you win.  I've snapped. I
>>>> am cutting you off the OccupyCU list as of now.   I trust you will
>>>> find better words to say, but you can say them to other people.
>>>>
>>>>     Stuart Levy
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OccupyCU mailing list
>>>> OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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