[Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
David Green
davegreen84 at yahoo.com
Fri Nov 23 22:14:59 UTC 2012
David, I was mixing up apples and oranges here to a certain extent. There are holocaust deniers who are conspiracy theorists, who obviously are not worth our time. There are those who think that holocaust deniers may themselves be part of a conspiracy to destroy Israel and exterminate Jews; they should be worth our time, because unlike holocaust deniers, they have the power to further their agenda; e.g., Daniel Pipes (who wrote a book criticizing conspiracy theorists in order to justify being a conspiracy theorist in regard to Islam); Islamophobia has become central to the "paranoid style" in our political culture for the past 20-30 years. Cointelpro, etc., are of course well worth our time; that's a real conspiracy. And of course there has always been a cover-up of the genuine roots of 9/11, and the nature of the immediate response, although I'm not sure that's any more a conspiracy then all the nonsense we have to endure about the "debt crisis" and
the "fiscal cliff." It's just what elites and the corporate media do.
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/09/a-higher-racism-the-new-justifications-for-islamophobia-and-pre-emptive-violence.html
DG
>________________________________
> From: David Johnson <dlj725 at microsoft.com>
>To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 12:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>
>
>
>"
Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy theories & 9/11
conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of time and a distraction by
anyone who is serious about the real problems in the world. "
>
>Norman Finkelstein has written extensively about this
phenomena, that being " The Holocaust Industry ", that has not only made
certain people money but has more importently, as you described David, been used
to distract and justify the nazi like behaviour of the Israeli
government.
>
>In terms of the JFK assasination and the 9/11 attack FACTS, as
opposed to theories or governmant cover-ups like the Bush appointed 9/11
commision and the Warren commission, I would respectfully
disagree.
>Kennedy assasination, M.L. King assasination, Malcolm
X assasination, and the 9/11 attack FACTS should be studied and
discussed along with documented facts of : COINTELPRO, CIA sponsored coups and
assasinations, rigged electons, false flag
actions, etc..
>The importence is two fold ;
>1) To know what the U.S. government has done in the
past on behalf of the 1 %, so that the American people will know and hence
not believe the lies of weapons of mass destruction, etc.. to justify military
actions and the abuse of civil liberties.
>2) When dealing with any group of criminals like the U.S,
ruling class 1%, one must know their M.O., which will also allow the American
people to know what to expect and hopefully how to prevent / deal with it in the
future.
>
>Of course since 9/11 2001 the ruling class and the corporate
media has done an extensive propoganda campaign to convince many people in the
U.S. that any accusation ( no matter how well documented )
of collaboration / misdeeds by the wealthy and powerful is "
conspiracy theory " and hence not true.
>As if the wealthy and the powerful don't coordinate actions or
even talk to each other.
>
>I do agree David that one should not spend too much time
dwelling on these sort of things, however to ignore the criminal history and past practices of the
1 % ruling class is at our own peril.
>
>David Johnson
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>>From: David Green
>>To: peace-discuss
>>Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:47 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>>
>>
>>The denial that I'm worried about is, among many other things, regarding the willful and planned Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, begun in earnest in 1947 and continuing at the present time. It's important, because it's widespread and politically consequential.
>>
>>The small cult of Holocaust denial has had to be exaggerated out of all proportion, partly in order to justify Israeli depredations, as well as to distract attention from ongoing American-sponsored atrocities around the world.
>>
>>Chomsky says that in the U.S., we have done the right thing by not suppressing Holocaust denial, as they have in some countries in Europe. Suppression and illegality only attracts more attention to the phenomenon. In the U.S., people are allowed to deny the Holocaust, they're recognized as lunatics, and nobody cares except a few individuals like Deborah Lipstadt who have made careers out of exaggerating the problem.
>>
>>Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy theories & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of time and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real problems in the world.
>>
>>But Holocaust denial has served well those who continue to deny what Israel has become--of course, only with the help of American support.
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>>From: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
>>>To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:37 PM
>>>Subject: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>>>
>>>Folks, some
thoughts on Holocaust denial, from someone who's studied it for fifteen
years. It's going only to peace-discuss.
>>>
>>>I think some background
would be helpful here.
>>>
>>>Holocaust denial is a conspiracy theory of
neo-Nazi origins claiming that literally millions of Jews have secretly
collaborated on a global fraud orders of magnitude larger and more complex
than any James Bond villain could even dream of.
>>>
>>>Intellectually, it's
on par with the folks who think that NASA and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon
landing. But on top of its idiocy, it adds a thick, wide, and inescapable
layer of antisemitic wackdoodlism.
>>>
>>>Here's what I mean. The Watergate
scandal involved under fifty conspirators, was protected by the most
powerful man in the world, but it still rattled apart in just two years. The
conspiracy theory that Holocaust deniers push requires not fifty Jews, not
five hundred Jews, not five thousand Jews, not fifty thousand Jews, not five
hundred thousand Jews, but five million Jews -- roughly a quarter of the
world's Jewish population -- to stick impeccably to a criminal script
flawlessly for over sixty years. As such, it ascribes to the Jews an
inexplicable and inhuman capacity for criminality of the largest imaginable
dimensions.
>>>
>>>What would you say to someone who tells you that one
quarter of all people of Italian descent are active in the Cosa Nostra? You
would rightly assail his idiocy, his paranoia, and his bigotry. Yet this is
not that different from what Holocaust deniers claim about the world's
Jews.
>>>
>>>It is like a burning cross. There is no dignified way to turn
your eyes and pretend you didn't see it when it happens in your own
town.
>>>
>>>If there is interest, I'd be happy to give a talk on the topic
-- its neo-Nazi origins, and its attempt in the mid-2000's to repaint itself
as "anti-Zionist" rather than "pro-Adolf" in order to try recruiting on the
progressive left, while telling exactly the same lies. Few on the left have
been fooled. But, as we have learned locally, few is not none.
>>>
>>>David
@%<
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Peace-discuss
mailing list
>>>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>
_______________________________________________
>>Peace-discuss
mailing
list
>>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20121123/32215b1e/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Peace-discuss
mailing list