[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Press release
"E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森"
ewj at pigsqq.org
Sat Dec 28 12:24:17 UTC 2013
I actually thought Rohn meant David Johnson not David Green but I
will admit the ad hominem nature of my remarks.
And I do really apologize - to the cats.
On 12/28/2013 11:29 AM, David Green wrote:
> Hey Rohn,
>
> AWARE has had its issues, and I'll let others speak for themselves; as
> far as me, I was never accused by anyone of being disruptive, and I
> certainly was not--perhaps I should have tried harder to be more so.
> It's amazing how such a story might spread, and I hope you'll be
> careful about repeating such scurrilous allegations, otherwise known
> as malicious gossip. I stopped attending AWARE meetings in 2006 for
> personal reasons. Anyone who would accuse me of being disruptive in
> that regard has an axe to grind in another context, probably in
> relation to I/P, or at some other personal level.
>
> Rohn, if you hear such allegations, it would be respectful of you to
> confirm them with the accused instead of simply believing them and
> having them "confirmed" by repetition in the local progressive
> feedback loop. Or you might at least take them with a grain of salt.
> In very few cases is the disruption what it appears to be on the
> surface, no matter how personally some people might take things.
>
> By the way, I busted my ass for about 2 or 3 years to take minutes at
> meetings and work the Farmers market from all angles, from ordering
> supplies to setting up to taking down; not to mention a teach-in I
> helped to organize in 2002, writing up fliers, etc. I have a feeling
> that most the gossip-mongers you refer to probably did much less, not
> that I cared at the time.
>
> I'm more inclined to believe that Obama's election and a reluctance to
> criticize him is at the root of this particular antiwar organization's
> conflicts, as it was with so many others around the country.
>
> Regarding Yaaqov, I think his tone and tactics have a long if little
> noted sordid history in what is called the progressive community in
> CU. He's like a walking stereotype of an Israeli "progressive." He's
> just bad news, he's a racist, he's an absolute clown at an
> intellectual level, and you might like to direct some of your
> scurrilous allegations his way.
>
> David
>
>
> On Friday, December 27, 2013 8:43 PM, Rohn Koester
> <rohnkoester at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Karen, I have to admit that I wasn't sure to whom you were referring
> when you wrote this. I suppose it was meant to be Ya'aqov? Just as a
> matter of fact, I've talked with probably two dozen people in the
> community who used to be members of AWARE but say they were driven
> away by rude, disruptive, calculated behavior on the part of Carl,
> Wayne, and/or David. These are unsolicited accounts, usually told to
> me when I've mentioned AWARE, and the general attitude of the accounts
> has been corroborated by several people who are still active members
> of AWARE. Much of this has reminded me of the sort of
> avoidance/compensation behavior that families of alcoholics engage in.
>
> I don't think anyone would claim the peace-discuss listserv really has
> many discussions at this point, not because there aren't differences
> of opinion but because the likelihood of these differences being given
> any sort of respectful treatment seems pretty low. I wonder if someone
> could describe the peace-discuss listserv's standards of conduct and
> how they're enforced. For instance, Wayne's message about Ya'aqov from
> a few hours ago made no attempt to address the political subject under
> discussion, and it seemed quite abusive in tone. Should this sort of
> comment be given the same access to the listserv as comments with
> substance?
>
> I'm glad to have this conversation in person if it's better for
> everyone -- which bar do you all plan to be meeting at this Sunday?
>
> Thanks,
> Rohn
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com
> <mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > At one time they followed the below, today they simply
> criticize, agitate,
> > disrupt, and/or slander in an effort to discredit those who are
> involved in
> > attempting to change the system. Somehow insisting they can do
> or think
> > better. When given the opportunity to do, they don't. It then
> becomes
> > obvious who and what they are, time and time again they will go
> after
> > individuals and groups and its always the same, instead of
> working to change
> > whats wrong they go after those that are, by wearing them down
> or just
> > boring them to death. It's one of those things you can't really
> discribe,
> > but you know it when you see or hear it.
> >
> > The technical term:
> >
> > An agent provocateur (French for "inciting agent") is an
> undercover agent
> > who acts to entice another person to commit an illegal or rash
> act or
> > falsely implicate them in partaking in an illegal act. An agent
> provocateur
> > may be employed by the police or other entity to discredit or
> harm another
> > group (e.g., peaceful protest or demonstration) by provoking
> them to commit
> > an act - thus, undermining the protest or demonstration as whole.
> > To prevent infiltration by agents provocateurs,[1] the
> organizers of large
> > or controversial assemblies may deploy and coordinate demonstration
> > marshals, also called stewards.[2][3]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 15:31:38 -0600
> > From: yaaqovz at gmail.com <mailto:yaaqovz at gmail.com>
> > To: davegreen84 at yahoo.com <mailto:davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
> > CC: peace-discuss at anti-war.net <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>;
> > discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net>;
> peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Peace] Press release
> >
> >
> > David Green,
> >
> >
> > Indeed, the meeting I referred to was at CPL a panel you were on. My
> > specific question to Dr Abu Al-Aish at UFL, was about Vittorio
> Arrigoni and
> > his assassination by Hamas. The level of your purposeful
> misquoting my
> > statements at that and other meetings critically disappoints me.
> If this is
> > what an academic does when getting into politics, don't we have such
> > politicians already
> >
> >
> > Your ethnic profiling of me is indicative of the depth you would
> apply to
> > someone challenging your standpoint. You would think, it's your
> campaign
> > related need to tarnish one's image and trivialize her/his
> comments. After
> > all, you are trying so hard to show you are concerned and
> involved with your
> > potential voters (yet in the face of disagreements, you do
> whatever it takes
> > to defend your ticket, it's a mere technicality to pass over a
> hurdle).
> > Did you really need to embed your reply with offensive remarks,
> character
> > assassination attempts? isn’t Rush Limbaugh an excellent
> spokesperson for
> > doing that already?
> >
> > And you haven’t answered yet my question: what you considered
> Palestinians
> > (?) other than by implying they are those people that Israelis
> have been
> > been horrible with. Mind you, you propose no change about that,
> >
> >
> > Ya'aqov
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list
> > Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
> >
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