[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Invitation to record AWARE ON THE AIR

Wed Aug 6 17:08:49 EDT 2014

Ya'aQov

You need to be fair. 
 Carl has frequently pointed out that the US sells weapons to the nations you refer. It is Israel that is our satellite and stationary aircraft carrier. 
Carl also gave a history of Hamas and their leader Khalid Mashal. 

As to using Ron Szoke as your "typical academic", I must object on his behalf, given he has made it to every AWARE filming aside for those when he has been on holiday, he also has attended during the same period of time the filming of NFN, and he is always prepared, keeping up with current news as well as history. He has always spoken out against the oppression by nations whether it be the US, Israel or elsewhere. In spite of disagreements he faces at home from his "new bride".

He also gives of his time at the market at least twice a month for a couple hours at a time, never failing to show. 

Add to the above he has almost never missed a protest or demonstration, standing outdoors for as much as two hours at a time, holding a sign in traffic, it's not always pleasant, given the heat, rain, wind, and snow we have experienced of late. He is older than either you or I, and I find myself frequently fatigued having to keep up with him. 

Last but not least, your assertion that "Ron Szokes of the academic world are responsible for this hatred and the way it, in turn, fuels mobs into aggression and perpetuation of violence." 
is totally absurd without warrant and defamation of character of one who has actively sought to bring about peace.

On the show yesterday, I challenged you to join us in our activities, I meant to assist us in speaking out against the perpetrators of violence and crime, not those who are attempting to remedy it.

Karen Aram

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 14:18:45 -0500
To: carl at newsfromneptune.com; peace at lists.chambana.net; occupyCU at lists.chambana.net; peace-discuss at anti-war.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Invitation to record AWARE ON THE AIR
From: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net

Please find my response to Carl's message, as I read it on AWARE on the Air, Tuesday, 8-5-2014.

====================
I do not support Carl Estabrook’s Anti-Obama statements, definitely not as a blanket approval.  

Carl’s statement ‘oppression of the Palestinians so long as Israel acts as a “stationary aircraft carrier” for US control of Mideast oil and gas’.  Well, the US sells arms to Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, feeding the Middle East with as many weapons they can stock.  Nothing changed about that since 1967. The military complex is doing its business as usual. Obama hasn’t started that, nor stopped it.  Yet I prefer Obama to any of the alternatives who ran for president last.

I pointed at the simplistic US tendency for unambiguous right/wrong.  I pointed out the failure to represent Israelis and Palestinians, drawing  efforts from an obsolete  and inefficient concept, that didn’t generate desired results.

I called and call for seeking a new strategy, one which will involve directly Palestinians.  Szoke called it, off the cuff ‘completely ineffectual’.  Abundance of terms taken from Nazi Germany, such as Gaza a concentration camp. What?!  people with arms, administration, elections, a charter calling for the destruction of Israel is a concentration camp? Open air prison, yes, but not a concentration camp. The decision to invest financial assistance sent to Ghaza into tunnels and not houses, the decision to maintain refugee camps rather than build houses was taken by these people.  The decision to maintain the telegenic image of refugees was corroborated again and again by these very people.

Szoke called to negotiate with Hamas. I pointed out that Szoke that had no idea of what Hamas say, their charter, their names and standpoints.  Szoke replied to my challenge for him to name 5 Hamas leaders ‘completely incoherent ,  Hamas don’t have designated leaders and that is their strength’.

The problem is that Szoke represents so many US intellectuals , who essentially have no clue about the  Palestinians and Israelis they talk about.  Ron Szokes of the US academia choose to not discourse with Israelis and Palestinians.  

I ran the Google search>>  'Hamas leaders' and got:

Mohammad Deif, Commander of Hamas military wing,
Isra al-Modallal, spokeperson
Khaled Mashal, leader
Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi, co founder d. 2004

Sheikh Ahmed Ismail Hassan Yassin, founder, d.2004
Mahmoud al-Zahar, co-founder
Ismail Haniyeh, Leader

Moreover, in the evening of last Tuesday’s AWARE on the Air,  Khaled Mashal, leader of the Hamas,  spoke on Charlie Rose, providing  standpoints and clarifications galore, to learn from.

There are plenty opportunities to get informed on what Hamas are intent on, on
Hamas position on what they are doing and on their rationale.  Also plenty opportunities to get informed on how and why Hamas are:
using children as human shield spending finance assistance for Ghaza on building into Israel launching rockets on Israelis

Ultimately, these ‘standpoints’ feed into increasing hatred  and anti-Zionism feeding into anti-Israel and anti-Jews, and into anti-Moslems and anti-Palestinians on the other hand. 

Ron Szokes of the academic world are responsible for this hatred and the way it, in turn, fuels mobs into aggression and perpetuation of violence.

Ya'aqov Ziso

On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:47 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Members and friends of AWARE are invited to sit in and participate (if you wish) in this week's recording of "AWARE on the Air" on Urbana Public Television.
>
> We record the program on Tuesdays from noon to 1pm in the Urbana City Council Chambers, 400 S. Vine Street, Urbana.

>
> The program is unrehearsed, but here is the planned introduction:
>
> ====================================================
> Good evening & welcome to AWARE ON THE AIR. I’m Carl Estabrook.

>
> Our program is presented by members & friends of AWARE, the Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana, a local peace group, in the 32nd week of 2014, a week in which the Obama administration had two bloody hands in eastern Europe and SW Asia, squeezing the life out of men, women and children. The hands are called Ukraine and Israel, and we Americans are responsible for what the USG is doing with them.

>
> In 2011, after killing US citizen Anwar al-Awlaki and his son in separate drone strikes, President Obama said, "Turns out I'm really good at killing people. Didn't know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine." On his orders, five thousand people have been killed with drones, including two hundred children.

>
> Last Friday, after the revelation that his CIA director John Brennan lied about CIA activities in regard to the still-unreleased Senate Intelligence Committee report on torture, President Obama admitted casually, “We tortured some folks."  Later it turned out that Obama’s claim to have banned all forms of torture was false. He admitted casually that he banned only SOME of the CIA’s torture techniques.

>
> President Obama has in fact shown himself willing to kill thousands of men, women, and children as a minion of  “the one percent,” because the president’s crimes of torture and murder are certainly not in the interest of most Americans - only those who want to maintain the American one percent’s control over the world economy, which they have enjoyed since the Second World War. To maintain that control, Washington uses its 1,000 military bases around the world and “special forces,” active in 124 countries. (Their activities include kidnapping - we call it “rendition” - torture and murder)

>
> This month, murders are also being carried out by two client states of the US, Israel and Ukraine - the bloody hands of the Obama administration in Europe and Asia. Israel has massacred almost two thousand people in Gaza, mostly civilians, and the US-backed (and installed) government in Kiev has killed almost as many in eastern Ukraine, the Donbas region; and its war has resulted in the destruction of a commercial airliner that killed 298 men, women, and children.

>
> Who is responsible for mass murder in Gaza and Donbas? Of course their leaders can be blamed for Israel and Ukraine’s committing what the Nuremberg Tribunal called “the supreme international crime” (i.e., worse than terrorism): waging aggressive war. But the final responsibility lies with the President of the United States. Without the support - economic, military, political, and diplomatic - that the U.S. government provides, Israel’s crimes would not be possible - and neither would the coup and military assaults by the Ukrainian government.

>
> President Obama fails to stop Israel’s ongoing murders in Gaza - as he could, with a word - because it’s been the policy of all U.S. administrations for two generations to allow the Israelis to continue their oppression of the Palestinians so long as Israel acts as a “stationary aircraft carrier” for US control of Mideast oil and gas.

>
> In eastern Europe the US immediately violated its promise not to extend NATO to the borders of Russia and is now scheming to do so through Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. President Obama’s administration engineered the coup against an elected government in Ukraine and sent the CIA chief to encourage a Ukrainian army attack on the regions that resisted the new government - the first government in Europe since WWII to include fascist parties.

>
> How much longer will Americans put up with a murderous president in Washington, who can smile and smile and be a villain? Will the pictures of dead children for whom he’s responsible lead to his being driven form office, as Presidents Johnson and Nixon were?

>
> Will his failure to provide jobs and economic relief for millions of Americans - what he was elected for - lead to his impeachment? Will the real distress of most Americans finally boil over into direct opposition to the Obama administration?

>
> The Pentagon thinks it’s a possibility: the Guardian newspaper in London reports that the US  military is preparing for mass civil breakdown. “The multi-million dollar programme is designed to develop immediate and long-term "warfighter-relevant insights" for senior officials and decision makers in "the defense policy community," and to inform policy implemented by "combatant commands" - that is, against US citizens.

>
> But Obama’s main task is to cover over the wars he’s sponsoring, the murders he’s committing, and the misery he’s causing. Three-quarters of Americans disapprove of the wars of the Bush-Obama years, and the billions of collars spent on them that could have been used here at home. Obama was elected to end the wars and provide jobs. He hasn’t done either one, and Americans’ anger is growing. His job is to turn aside that anger.

>
> One way that’s done is to use a compliant media to misrepresent the Obama administration’s military and economic policy. Our task here at AWARE ON THE AIR - like similar independent programs around the country - is to combat that overwhelming propaganda.

>
> We’ll try to do that tonight with reports & comments from members are friends of AWARE...
>
> ###
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list

> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

I do not support Carl Estabrook’s Anti-Obama statements, definitely not as a blanket approval.  

Carl’s statement ‘oppression of the Palestinians so long as Israel acts as a “stationary aircraft carrier” for US control of Mideast oil and gas’.  Well, the US sells arms to Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, feeding the Middle East with as many weapons they can stock.  Nothing changed about that since 1967. The military complex is doing its business as usual. Obama hasn’t started that, nor stopped it.  Yet I prefer Obama to any of the alternatives who ran for president last.

I pointed at the simplistic US tendency for unambiguous right/wrong.  I pointed out the failure to represent Israelis and Palestinians, drawing  efforts from an obolete  and inefficient concept, that didn’t generate desired results.

I called and call for seeking a new strategy, one which will involve directly Palestinians.  Szoke called it, off the cuff ‘completely ineffectual’.  Abundance of terms taken from Nazi Germany, such as Gaza a concentration camp. What?!  people with arms, administration, elections, a charter calling for the destruction of Israel is a concentration camp? Open air prison, yes, but not a concentration camp. The decision to invest financial assistance sent to Ghaza into tunnels and not houses, the decision to maintain refugee camps rather than build houses was taken by these people.  The decision to maintain the telegenic image of refugees was corroborated again and again by these very people.

Szoke called to negotiate with Hamas. I pointed out that Szoke that had no idea of what Hamas say, their charter, their names and standpoints.  Szoke replied to my challenge for him to name 5 Hamas leaders ‘completely incoherent ,  Hamas don’t have designated leaders and that is their strength’.

The problem is that Szoke represents so many US intellectuals , who essentially have no clue about the  Palestinians and Israelis they talk about.  Ron Szokes of the US academia choose to not discourse with Israelis and Palestinians.  

i ran the Google search>>  Hamas leaders, and got:

Mohammad Deif, Commander of Hamas military wing,

Isra al-Modallal, spokeperson

Khaled Mashal, leader

Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi, co founder d. 2004

Sheikh Ahmed Ismail Hassan Yassin, founder, d.2004

Mahmoud al-Zahar, co-founder

Ismail Haniyeh, Leader

Moreover, in the evening of last Tuesday’s AWARE on the Air,  Khaled Mashal, leader of the Hamas,  spoke on Charlie Rose, providing  standpoints and clarifications galore, to learn from.

There are plenty opportunities to get informed on what Hamas are intent on, on

Hamas position on what they are doing and on their rationale.  Also plenty opportunities to get informed on how and why Hamas are:

using children as human shield

spending finance assistance for Ghaza on building into Israel

launching rockets on Israelis

Ultimately, these ‘standpoints’ feed into increasing hatred  and anti-Zionism feeding into anti-Israel and anti-Jews, and into anti-Moslems and anti-Palestinians on the other hand.

Ron Szokes of the academic are responsible for this hatred and the way it, in turn, fuels mobs into aggression and perpetuation of violence.

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