[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results
ewj at pigsqq.org
ewj at pigsqq.org
Fri Feb 7 13:33:34 UTC 2014
* Rosenberg is a corporate attorney who takes poor people to
* court to collect unpaid hospital bills.
David -
I keep wondering when Gehrig and Yack'ov are going to show up and start
trying to whack you for being anti-cementic.
"Does that sound anti-Semitic? It probably does. Hey, I'm sure that those
Jews were no more crooked than the general run of goyish businessmen. It
just so happened that Jews tended to get into the... business. T'was ever
thus."
- R. Crumb
-------Original Message-------
From: David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
To: sf-core <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>, Peace-discuss
<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>, occupycu at lists.chambana.net, C. G.
Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG
Debate Results
Sent: Feb 07 '14 10:02
Carl,
I am opposed to corporate subsidies unless they provide good paying
full-time jobs or some other direct, quality, verifiable benefit to the
community.
I would prefer no corporate subsidies and instead give subsidies only to
worker owned and operated cooperative, but at this point anyway, that is
probably the best that can happen. For Now anyway.
I totaly agree with Durl's report and in fact read it on the World Labor
Hour last Saturday. If I was on the city Council I would have opposed ALL
of
the recent corporate subsidies given by the city ;
1) Worden Martin Car Dealership - pay your own moving expenses. If they
want
to move their dealership to Danville or Decatur, go for it !
2) Hyatt Hotel in downtown Champaign -
NO ! If you don't build, some other hotel chain will since it is the
downtown Champaign nightlife area that attracts visitors and tourists NOT
your hotel.
3) Kraft Foods - That is a current employer with over 1300 jobs. Not such
an
easy decision, however, I would have stated that they need to eliminate
all
of their part-time temp help at minimum wage and hire full time help at a
minimum starting pay of $ 15.00 per hour with regular annual wage
increases
up to $ 25.00 per hour within four years and provide health care for free.
Otherwise go somewhere else. They would probably not move since that is
very
expensive, but regardless Kraft should have been a negotiated line in the
sand if they wanted the 3.5 million dollars. But of course Gerard and the
other corporate hacks on the council just handed over the money and
propogated Kraft's propoganda that they supposedly in this university city
not find competant employees who are qualified...bullshit !
So i agree with Carol's technology zone plan because as I posted in the
last
e-mail, it has specific conditions that must be met in regards to full
time
above living wage employment, BUT, I do agree with you Carl that any such
future program MUST be transparent and open to public scrutinity in each
and
every case before any money is handed over.
Also, Carol calls for a progressive income tax ( she had a hand out for
that
too last night with specific tax percentages for income levels.) So that
corresponds to your policy suggestions.
In terms of the Illinois Universal healthcare Act ( H.B. 942 ) and the IL.
House Bill to disolve the Illinois Charter school commission I have yet to
hear Carol's opinion. But I cannot imagine her being opposed.
So again, we could do a LOT worse with Rosenberg and his proposed
policies.
Not to mention, I have known Carol for over ten years, so I do know her
track record. Rosenberg is a corporate attorney who takes poor people to
court to collect unpaid hospital bills.
Not to mention, the News Gazette and the Democratic party establishment (
Laurel Prussing, Naomi Jackobsen, Steve Becket, JUlia Rietz ) are all
opposing and attacking Carol.
THat alone would be reason enough for me to support her.
David Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. G. Estabrook" <[LINK: compose.php?to=carl at newsfromneptune.com]
carl at newsfromneptune.com>
To: "David Johnson" <[LINK: compose.php?to=davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net]
davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
Cc: "sf-core" <[LINK: compose.php?to=sf-core at yahoogroups.com]
sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; "Peace-discuss"
<[LINK: compose.php?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net]
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; <[LINK:
compose.php?to=occupycu at lists.chambana.net] occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results
David--
As you know, "enterprise zones" are a neoliberal technique, originally
proposed by 'supply-side' economists. Their current proponents acknowledge
successful criticism by looking for newer, more marketable names - e.g.,
"technology zones."
It's not clear that states and municipalities should be competing to give
breaks to corporate entities on the threat that they might move away and
take jobs - or on the promise to bring them. See e.g., Durl Kruse' letter
(attached) regarding the Champaign City Council's "Tax Increment Financing
District" that will give Kraft "a $3.6 million tax subsidy to build a new
warehouse."
Durl writes, "One must wonder if this TIF project represents the flexing
of
corporate muscle by threatening the community 'not to build if not
approved,' and when given the opportunity, to directly manipulate TIF laws
for corporate gain at taxpayers' expense."
Clearly, the supposed benefits of such a program should generalize. You
can
make an argument for "an across the board corporate tax cut" to promote
trade and employment. Such business taxes should be replaced with taxes on
concentrated wealth and speculation - i.e., taxes on investable assets,
and
Tobin taxes.
Given the entrenched (non-democratic) political power of capital, wealth
taxes and Tobin taxes are not on the horizon in Illinois, unfortunately.
(The Democrats should of course be opposed on this point.) The best we can
do in the near future seems to be a progressive income tax and social
subsidies, including perhaps the state single-payer system that you've
been
working for.
Regards, CGE
On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:21 PM, David Johnson <[LINK:
compose.php?to=davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net] davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> The differnce is that Rosenberg supports an across the board corporate
tax
> cut with no conditions.
>
> Carol Ammons " Technology Zone Program " gives a tax break to a company
> ONLY if a company ;
>
> 1) increases employment by the greater of 10 % of its current workforce
or
> a minimum of 3 new full-time employees
>
> 2) Pays wages of 20 % or more above the median income of Champaign
County
>
> 3) Employ a minimum of 5 full-time employees
>
> Not to mention that Rosenberg is an attorney who works for Carle Clinic
> and takes poor and elderly people to court for not paying hospital
bills.
>
> Carol has been a community activist for over a decade, opposing the :
> Police, States Attorney and other local officials / vested interests at
> times when necessary in the pursuit of social justice.
>
> Again, the choice is clear to me who would be the better advocate for
> Working people in the 103rd District
>
> David Johnson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: C. G. Estabrook
> To: David Johnson
> Cc: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"[LINK:
compose.php?to=@mail0.frost.chambana.net] @mail0.frost.chambana.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results
>
> Didn't Carol support 'enterprise zones' (under another name), which are
> even more substantial corporate tax cats - for favored corporations?
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2014, at 9:24 PM, David Johnson <[LINK:
compose.php?to=davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net] davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I just returned from the Ammons vs. Rosenberg debate, for the
Illinois
>> 103rd State Rep Democratic Primary race.
>>
>> The major differences between the two candidates were ;
>>
>> Rosenberg SUPPORTS cutting corporate taxes and OPPOSES the $ 15.00 per
>> hour minimum wage.
>>
>> Carol Ammons in contrast OPPOSES cutting corporate taxes and SUPPORTS
the
>> $ 15.00 per hour minimum wage.
>>
>> Rosenberg also stated that Carol Ammons experience in local government
on
>> the County Board and the Urbana City Council does NOT make her more
>> qualified than him in terms of experience.
>> He stated that ;
>> " Springfield is a different BEAST than local government and I am more
>> qualified to deal with that."
>>
>> The difference could not be any clearer to me.
>>
>> What was also interesting was that I submitted TWO questions for the
>> candidates, first via e-mail several days before the debate and early
on
>> at the debate.
>> Neither question was asked !
>>
>> The questions were ;
>>
>> 1) Would you be willing to co-sponsor the current House Bill to enact a
>> universal health care system in Illinois ( H.B. 942 ).
>>
>> and
>>
>> 2) Would you co-sponsor House Bill H.B. 3754 that would dissolve the
>> Illinois Charter School Commision
>>
>> I wonder why the Moderators avoided asking these questions ?
>>
>> David Johnson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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