[Peace-discuss] [Discuss] Common Core
"E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森"
ewj at pigsqq.org
Mon Jan 27 05:53:59 UTC 2014
Knowledge is power. (Frank Bacon)
Information might be empowering if knowledge is derived from quality
information.
Misinfo is also empowering (relatively so) to those pushing it.
On 1/27/2014 12:07 PM, Lynn Stuckey wrote:
> *Sure, there should be minimal standards in the public education of
> children (At what level do we expect them, at the end of their days,
> to read, to write, to calculate, to reason, to know the nature of
> nature, etc.!.… ) just as there should be standards for government
> actions, institutions, etc. *Agreed
> *Just how to meet those standards can be flexible. * Be very
> cautious--some are only too happy to exploit flexibility to serve
> their own purposes, and not students, families, or taxpayers...
> *How about standards for teachers, and for their remuneration and
> their education? *A whole 'nother can of worms...standards for
> renumeration are different in Chicago than they are in Cairo, but the
> cost of living in Cairo is much less.
> *How standards are set will be contentious, but ought to reasonably
> blend democratic procedures and, yes, that horrible thing called
> knowledge. *Agreed
> *
> *
> **
> *This all bears on the the large question of an informed
> citizenry/society—does anyone want it? *Somedays I suspect this is the
> sort of goal that many are willing to pay lip service to, but only too
> happy to work behind the scenes subverting. After all, information is
> power.
>
> Lynn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: brussel at illinois.edu
> To: davegreen84 at yahoo.com
> CC: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net; lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com;
> discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net;
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Discuss] Common Core
> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 03:57:05 +0000
>
> My two £:
>
> Sure, there should be minimal standards in the public education of
> children (At what level do we expect them, at the end of their days,
> to read, to write, to calculate, to reason, to know the nature of
> nature, etc.!.… ) just as there should be standards for government
> actions, institutions, etc.
> Just how to meet those standards can be flexible.
> How about standards for teachers, and for their remuneration and their
> education?
> How standards are set will be contentious, but ought to reasonably
> blend democratic procedures and, yes, that horrible thing called
> knowledge.
>
> This all bears on the the large question of an informed
> citizenry/society—does anyone want it?
>
> --mkb
>
> On Jan 26, 2014, at 7:37 PM, David Green wrote:
>
> Phony liberal-conservative debate about the common core distracts
> us from both economic issues and legitimate educational issues,
> just as Bill Gates wants us to be.
>
>
> On Sunday, January 26, 2014 7:30 PM, David Johnson
> <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net
> <mailto:davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> *Interesting discussion on " Common Core " and educational
> policy.*
> *I did some research about " Common Core " and it appears that
> the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation are big promoters of
> Common *
> *Core, including a $ 160 Million dollar donation.*
> *That alone makes me suspicious of Common Core, since Bill
> Gates is a big promoter of privatized corporate charter schools.*
> *David Johnson*
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Lynn Stuckey <mailto:lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com>
> *To:* David Green <mailto:davegreen84 at yahoo.com> ; Peace
> Discuss <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net> ; discuss list
> <mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Discuss] Common Core
>
> *On a genuinely democratic basis, without pressure and
> harassment, parents, teachers, administrators, citizens,
> and developing children can make sound decisions in
> accordance with their local proclivities and genuine
> concern about their children's futures. On the basis of
> consensual school/community standards in various
> disciplines, teachers, parents, and children can make
> choices that consider the gifts and talents of each child,
> as well as the labor market. These gifts and talents may
> have vocational possibilities or otherwise, but it will be
> up to children, in consultation with their parents and
> teachers, to make choices with various implications for
> their development and their future.*
>
> Sorry, David, but you've just made it clear that you've
> always lived in places where adults regard it as their
> responsibility to educate children. I must unfortunately
> inform you that not every community thinks that way (many
> rural communities are good places of the thinking that
> drives their underinvestment in education), and your
> proposed solution will leave these children undereducated
> and consigned to lower earnings and achievement throughout
> their life. While it may make the adults feel good, how
> does it help the children develop into productive adults?
> How does this further your goal of a progressive, more
> just society?
>
> As a person who grew up in one of those communities that
> takes pride in undereducating their children, it is not a
> pleasant place to be in, and there is a reason I refused
> to subject my own child to that type of education. I do
> not appreciate your willingness to throw so many children
> away. Not every child gets the chance to grow up in a
> community like Champaign-Urbana.
>
> Lynn
>
> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 15:30:10 -0800
> From: davegreen84 at yahoo.com <mailto:davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Common Core
> To: lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com
> <mailto:lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com>;
> peace-discuss at anti-war.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>;
> discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net>
>
> Hi Lynn,
>
> So long as schools are accorded the role of sorting out
> students for their assigned places in brutal capitalism
> with its radical inequality, then there is not much the
> schools can do one way or the other. Once we've addressed
> economic issues as economic issues, then we can address
> educational issues as educational issues, and let the
> chips fall where they may. We can have national or state
> standards, but these should not be mandatory. On a
> genuinely democratic basis, without pressure and
> harassment, parents, teachers, administrators, citizens,
> and developing children can make sound decisions in
> accordance with their local proclivities and genuine
> concern about their children's futures. On the basis of
> consensual school/community standards in various
> disciplines, teachers, parents, and children can make
> choices that consider the gifts and talents of each child,
> as well as the labor market. These gifts and talents may
> have vocational possibilities or otherwise, but it will be
> up to children, in consultation with their parents and
> teachers, to make choices with various implications for
> their development and their future. On this basis schools
> can come to address the needs of the individual in the
> community, rather than groups whose interests, while
> worthy of consideration, should have no bearing on the
> development and choices of the child/adolescent/young adult.
>
> Best,
>
> David
>
>
> On Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:53 PM, Lynn Stuckey
> <lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com
> <mailto:lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> *School districts (parents, teachers, students,
> citizens) need to develop their own standards.*
> "Developing their own standards" is what gives us one
> set of textbooks for Texas and another for the rest of
> the country. Is this a path you would like to
> continue on? Do you really think the science books
> that teach about creationism are doing those children
> any favors?
> * Standards don't have to be uniform, even among
> schools or classrooms. *And if the standards are not
> uniform, how can we be certain that all children in a
> particular grade level are able to read, write, or do
> arithmetic at a particular level? A high school
> diploma is no longer a guarantee that you can read or
> write; it has devolved into a marker that you can show
> up for enough classes and stay out of enough trouble
> to make it through. Hence "credential inflation",
> best symbolized by the drapery company in town that
> expects its receptionist to possess a four-year
> degree, yet will only pay her minimum wage. Any
> questions as to why this job is constantly in the want
> ads?
> *They should result from communities developing an
> educational identity.* I can't remember where you're
> from, David, but I know you've lived in C-U for almost
> as long as I have. I grew up on a farm almost 70
> miles south of here, in a county of 14,000 residents
> (2010 census: 11,400; about 98% white) that is
> economically depressed and in (proud) possession of
> bad schools. You need to understand that many small
> and rural school districts don't place a high premium
> on educational achievement, but the
> Republican-dominated school boards expect and agitate
> for state payments. Do you realize how many school
> districts in Illinois don't have Advanced Placement or
> Honors classes? Do you realize how many of the voting
> citizens of those counties are more concerned about
> how their high school football or basketball team is
> doing, but don't care about the kids who are below
> average on reading or math tests? Then they wonder
> why they can't attract economic development, and why
> their population keeps declining and getting poorer.
>
> "Developing an educational identity" sounds great on
> paper and may work well in a university town, where
> folks recognize the need for all children to be
> achieving to the best of their abilities. But it is
> a _*disaster*_ for children from areas like the one I
> grew up in, where the interest is not on educating
> children, but rather on making sure they show up so
> the district can collect the maximum payment from the
> State.
>
> And I'm not a huge fan of Common Core--while the
> initial idea was good, the back-mapping of what
> children need to learn, when they need to learn it
> (often not based on when their developing brains are
> ready to do it), and the execution of its rollout are
> horrible, and it's going to fail as badly as pretty
> much any other education "reform" propogated in
> American schools since the early 1900's.
>
> What's the answer, you ask? Well, I'm a fan of the
> money following the child. I would abolish
> attendance boundaries and allow parents and children
> to flee the schools that are failing children. And
> yes, some schools will close, but why shouldn't you be
> out of business when you won't even bother to make the
> effort to ensure all children are achieving to the
> best of their abilities? Why should a family held be
> captive to the board's disinterest in and
> unwillingness to educate children to necessary levels,
> simply because of their address? Mine was, and let me
> tell you, it was not a pleasant experience to be told
> that my school would not be willing to pay for
> independent studies in Chemistry II and Physics II my
> senior year of high school, and that I must round up
> 12 children to take Calculus (the 9 I had found were
> considered to be an "insufficient number", out of a
> class of 78 seniors). But I was welcome to take P.E.
> for an additional period, and had I considered
> Woodworking or Automotive class? Really? This is
> what you want to continue paying for? Do you have any
> reason to wonder why the four siblings who got a
> chance to go to the Illinois Math and Science Academy
> fled there instead?
>
> "Money following the child" is the model we use for
> college in the U.S. I don't buy the argument that
> parents are incapable of making decisions for the best
> education for their child from ages 5-17, but once
> that child hits 18, s/he can make a good decision
> about what college and career path they are best
> suited for. Just check out the statistics on how many
> people complete college in six years or less, or the
> rates of degree attainment in community colleges.
> Just because some parents make educational decisions
> you might not agree with does not make them wrong.
>
> Lynn Stuckey
>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 07:24:56 -0800
> From: davegreen84 at yahoo.com <mailto:davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
> To: peace-discuss at anti-war.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>;
> discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net>
> Subject: [Discuss] Common Core
>
> http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/01/24-10
>
> Indispensable for an understanding how corrupted the
> "liberal vs. conservative" debate is regarding school
> "reform". School districts (parents, teachers,
> students, citizens) need to develop their own
> standards. Standards don't have to be uniform, even
> among schools or classrooms. They should result from
> communities developing an educational identity.
>
> DG
>
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