[Peace-discuss] FW: [socialistdiscussion] Left Platform's plan for exiting the Euro [13 Attachments]
David Johnson
davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net
Sun Jul 12 18:39:46 EDT 2015
In case you haven't seen it, this is what they are demanding!
Unbelievable! Even that thuggish tyrant Boris Johnson ( Mayor of London ) recognizes that
German proposals to take over Greek state assets are tantamount to tyranny and must be resisted
* Description: cid:part2.04080105.03050100 at btinternet.com
602
* Favorites 214
* <https://twitter.com/kasafak> Description: Kamil SAFAK <https://twitter.com/dustette> Description: Chenchen ZH <https://twitter.com/armandobiondi> Description: Armando Biondi <https://twitter.com/pmarca> Description: Marc Andreessen <https://twitter.com/Nix020> Description: Lucien Nix <https://twitter.com/alancuentas> Description: alancuentas <https://twitter.com/TonyNashOnAsia> Description: Tony Nash <https://twitter.com/BobConnelly6> Description: Bob Connelly <https://twitter.com/teunisbrosens> Description: Teunis Brosens
9:42 AM - 12 Jul 2015
Description: cid:part23.02020908.06080401 at btinternet.com
Description: cid:part24.07020105.02060402 at btinternet.com
Description: cid:part23.02020908.06080401 at btinternet.com
· <https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky> Description: cid:part26.05050902.00010703 at btinternet.comEd Conway @EdConwaySky <https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/620272062771429377> 5h5 hours ago
Here’s the full 4pg eurogroup document on <https://twitter.com/hashtag/Greece?src=hash> #Greece, inc “time-out”, total amt needed (€82-6bn) & reform proposals
603 retweets 216 favorites
On 12/07/2015 22:02, John Reimann 1999wildcat at gmail.com [socialistdiscussion] wrote:
First, as far as placing the banks under public ownership under workers' control and management: This is in the context of the possibility - maybe even probability - of Greece returning to the drachma as well as the repudiation of the debt. Under these circumstances, it seems to me the banks would be recapitalized.
As far as the Greek merchant marine: There was a recent article in the WSJ on this. They give the impression that there is still a lot of Greek employment in the industry and that, in any case, these lines are owned by Greek capitalists. As I say, the ships should first me immediately brought back to Greece. If at some point in the future they are held in a foreign port, can you imagine the propaganda the workers on those ships could make amongst their fellow sailors and dock workers there?
John
On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 1:39 PM, tialsedov at yahoo.com [socialistdiscussion] <socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I think John's "list" is a good one...though I'm no expert on this, and while I would endorse all such proposals (putting pt. 5 as NUMBER ONE priority) let me play devils advocate here. What exactly doe these proposals get you?
When you nationalize the banks (under workers control or not) what...exactly...are you nationalizing? Certainly not billions in Euros as those remain in Germany. There are no assets to speak of except for those that have fallen under the banks ownership through whatever form of Greco-Euro bankruptcy exists. The Greek merchant marine seriously is not Greek at all but tied up through flags of convenience and transnational corporation. The minute these ships now owned by the Greek state tie up in another port, they will be seized for non-payment of debt (John's pt. 3 above).
The ability of Greece to exist as an independent political economy either as an independent capitalist country OR a "socialist" one is simply impossible. Greece doesn't produce much. Greece is not Argentina which produces a LOT and can exist somewhat independently from globalized Imperialism based on production of wealth. The Greeks do produce agricultural goods and second step/value added goods from agriculture like olive oil, wine and cheese. This means that other than starving to death, economically, austerity, the origin of these struggle, comes roaring back, which begs why John's point 5 is so important.
If Trotsky's theory of Permanent Revolution ever applied, it is in Greece which won't last even 2 months if massive solidarity with the Greek working class doesn't begin to consume the day to day actions of the the rest of Europe's working class.
David
--
"Poems don't belong to those who write them; they belong to those who need them" - from movie "Il Postino"
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com and //www.facebook.com/WorkersIntlNetwork?ref=stream
www.yac.mx
__._,_.___
Attachment(s) from Julian | <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYTVuZHJqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDdmlld09uV2ViBHN0aW1lAzE0MzY3MzY5NjE-> View attachments on the web
10 of 13 Photo(s) (View all Photos <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYTVuZHJqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDdmlld09uV2ViBHN0aW1lAzE0MzY3MzY5NjE-> )
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=869427243> Description: Image removed by sender. CJumJfaWwAAweYO.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=869427243> CJumJfaWwAAweYO.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=552202452> Description: Image removed by sender. ZpY5u-SV_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=552202452> ZpY5u-SV_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=2048779661> Description: Image removed by sender. FhmDxB4N_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=2048779661> FhmDxB4N_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=738823697> Description: Image removed by sender. GvJf55-t_normal.jpeg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=738823697> GvJf55-t_normal.jpeg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=404992184> Description: Image removed by sender. xyeab5Fs_normal.png
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=404992184> xyeab5Fs_normal.png
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=93990575> Description: Image removed by sender. dgyHciUi_normal.jpeg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=93990575> dgyHciUi_normal.jpeg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=1921426563> Description: Image removed by sender. 15-07-06_1159_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=1921426563> 15-07-06_1159_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=110896534> Description: Image removed by sender. ifDyAEa2_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=110896534> ifDyAEa2_normal.jpg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=360982266> Description: Image removed by sender. default_profile_1_normal.png
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=360982266> default_profile_1_normal.png
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=25728502> Description: Image removed by sender. 4ead23e5fd59730514667286c0a49d48_normal.jpeg
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/attachments/967729851;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMTFhcjlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--?itemid=25728502> 4ead23e5fd59730514667286c0a49d48_normal.jpeg
_____
Posted by: Julian <jsilverman at btinternet.com>
_____
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/conversations/messages/31336;_ylc=X3oDMTJyamFpNHUxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRtc2dJZAMzMTMzNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0MzY3MzY5NjE-?act=reply&messageNum=31336> Reply via web post
•
<mailto:jsilverman at btinternet.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bsocialistdiscussion%5D%20Left%20Platform%27s%20plan%20for%20exiting%20the%20Euro> Reply to sender
•
<mailto:socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bsocialistdiscussion%5D%20Left%20Platform%27s%20plan%20for%20exiting%20the%20Euro> Reply to group
•
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdW9rZzJiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0MzY3MzY5NjE-> Start a New Topic
•
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/conversations/topics/31290;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aXQ0amt0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRtc2dJZAMzMTMzNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0MzY3MzY5NjEEdHBjSWQDMzEyOTA-> Messages in this topic (33)
_____
Check out the automatic photo album with 3 photo(s) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/photos/photomatic/1451255610;_ylc=X3oDMTE4M3R1OW82BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGNmOQNQSE9UT01BVElDBHNlYwNtZWdhcGhvbmU-> from this topic.
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/photos/photomatic/1451255610;_ylc=X3oDMTE4M3R1OW82BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGNmOQNQSE9UT01BVElDBHNlYwNtZWdhcGhvbmU-> Description: Image removed by sender. CJumGvHWwAAJ165.jpgDescription: Image removed by sender. CJumJfaWwAAweYO.jpgDescription: Image removed by sender. CJumEfBXAAA0SGM.jpg
_____
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/socialistdiscussion/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmY3VldjNjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0MzY3MzY5NjE-> Visit Your Group
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJldmsyZW5qBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4MDM1OTUzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDM3NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTQzNjczNjk2MQ--> Description: Image removed by sender. Yahoo! Groups
• <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html> Privacy • <mailto:socialistdiscussion-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> Unsubscribe • <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/> Terms of Use
.
Description: Image removed by sender.
Description: Image removed by sender.
__,_._,___
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: CJumJfaWwAAweYO.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 118677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0011.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ZpY5u-SV_normal.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1579 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0012.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: FhmDxB4N_normal.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1655 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0013.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: GvJf55-t_normal.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1883 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: xyeab5Fs_normal.png
Type: image/png
Size: 3555 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: dgyHciUi_normal.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1655 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0005.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 15-07-06_1159_normal.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 929 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0014.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ifDyAEa2_normal.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1731 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0015.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: default_profile_1_normal.png
Type: image/png
Size: 496 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0003.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 4ead23e5fd59730514667286c0a49d48_normal.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1123 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0006.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: CJumEfBXAAA0SGM.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 123619 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0016.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: CJumGvHWwAAJ165.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 126589 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0017.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 8nhFNZrb_bigger.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 3151 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0007.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ~WRD000.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 823 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0018.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 195364 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0019.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 359 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0020.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image003.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 332 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150712/665d5cc4/attachment-0021.jpg>
More information about the Peace-discuss
mailing list