[Peace-discuss] [Peace] MoveOn Members On Bernie Sanders: 'He'll Say No to Permanent War'

Thu Jan 14 09:47:30 EST 2016

Moving this to peace-discuss - that's what it's for, to enable us to
publicly insult each other without annoying too many people in the process.
;)

I didn't see KvH as attaching herself to a particular causation story. The
KvH piece linked to appeared in the Washington Post on December 22,
following the third Democratic debate, which had taken place the previous
Saturday in New Hampshire:

A vigorous foreign-policy debate between Clinton and Sanders
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-vigorous-foreign-policy-debate-between-clinton-and-sanders/2015/12/22/05d8eb92-a819-11e5-bff5-905b92f5f94b_story.html

Here is the WaPo transcript of that debate:

3rd Democratic debate transcript, annotated: Who said what and what it meant
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/19/3rd-democratic-debate-transcript-annotated-who-said-what-and-what-it-meant/

At the time KvH wrote that, it was an accurate summary of the dynamics in
mainstream media. Among many, many examples that appeared in the previous
month:

Sanders knocked off stride by foreign policy focus
The Vermont senator suddenly finds himself forced to deviate from an
economic message he's been honing for decades.
By Gabriel Debenedetti
11/16/15 06:51 PM EST
Updated 11/16/15 09:41 PM EST
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/bernie-sanders-foreign-policy-paris-215937

In fact, as I was writing my piece, I wanted to make the same point that
she made, and at first I was going to do it by citing pieces like the
Politico piece, but then as I was searching for such pieces, I came across
KvH's piece, so I thought: instead of referring to a bunch of these pieces,
I can save time and space by just referring to this KvH one that summarizes
them all.

Whatever one thinks of Obama, it's just about certain that he's going to be
President for one more year and no more. It's just about certain that he's
going to be replaced by Clinton or Sanders or Trump or Cruz or Rubio. And
this is what most Americans who care a lot about politics are focused on
right now, in the two weeks remaining before the Iowa caucus: not on Obama,
but on what comes after.

The story that MoveOn members told when they voted to endorse Sanders is a
very different story from that presented by mainstream media, one in which
Democratic voters are looking for someone who will avoid war rather than
someone who has foreign policy experience. That's what I wanted to
highlight in this piece:

[...]

This suggests that the result of the Iowa caucus could upend not only the
national media narrative about the candidates, but also the national media
narrative about what Democratic voters are looking for from candidates on
foreign policy. If Sanders wins Iowa with MoveOn's support, then MoveOn
could use this to credibly claim, as vanden Heuvel suggested, that on
foreign policy Democratic voters don't value "experience" right now as much
as they value "not getting us in more wars" and "peaceful solutions to
prevent war," like the Iran deal.
- "MoveOn Members On Bernie Sanders: 'He'll Say No to Permanent War'"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/moveon-members-on-bernie_b_8974246.html

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 10:32 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> What’s odd is KVH’s perception of “voters' grow[ing] more concerned about
> national security and terrorism” as if that’s a free variable.
>
> She knows but doesn’t admit that it’s the result of (as I say) "the
> administration’s scare-mongering and attempts to mask its killing."
>
> (I appreciate the unwonted respect, Bob. Or were you being ironic?)
>
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> wrote:
>
> What's odd about it, O wise one?
>
>
>
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org&d=BQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=9JXCKeQxqQI9D_KiJJcCTbvMZFW79mJDlhLIGon1Zns&s=DlaG47GsueNyL-kuIUSqXWGii_lELUPz16ze875_Hls&e=>
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:47 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>> That’s an odd way to say that Clinton means to continue Obama’s criminal
>> war-making - as Obama continued Bush’s.
>>
>> Her problem is that Americans are not enthusiastic for more war, in spite
>> of the administration’s scare-mongering and attempts to mask its killing.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:36 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <
>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> As Katrina vanden Heuvel has written
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.washingtonpost.com_opinions_a-2Dvigorous-2Dforeign-2Dpolicy-2Ddebate-2Dbetween-2Dclinton-2Dand-2Dsanders_2015_12_22_05d8eb92-2Da819-2D11e5-2Dbff5-2D905b92f5f94b-5Fstory.html&d=BQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=IgZKbSLMr9ETXtUaxubXzRdTgImHRnySq-nE67XgoHQ&s=AAN4VL6g1u82heTIy2WyixVtngyUrkz3G4RrKTz3Mnc&e=>,
>> "The conventional wisdom is that [Hillary] Clinton benefits as voters grow
>> more concerned about national security and terrorism. She is the most
>> experienced of all the candidates." But, vanden Heuvel argued, "as we have
>> seen on domestic issues, experience is a mixed blessing when fundamental
>> judgments have been wrong and counterproductive."
>>
>> It would appear that most members of MoveOn agree with vanden Heuvel on
>> this point.
>>
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/moveon-members-on-bernie_b_8974246.html
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.huffingtonpost.com_robert-2Dnaiman_moveon-2Dmembers-2Don-2Dbernie-5Fb-5F8974246.html&d=BQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=IgZKbSLMr9ETXtUaxubXzRdTgImHRnySq-nE67XgoHQ&s=WiTgPkLEdUd9qHSTrUKub2yt4-clTyU5XoELRtBEjSE&e=>
>>
>> ===
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace-2Ddiscuss&d=BQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=9JXCKeQxqQI9D_KiJJcCTbvMZFW79mJDlhLIGon1Zns&s=9ONGHalmfetioGLHOKdphFzQVuuDoug_jsFAI0yyHt8&e=>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20160114/bcdd745e/attachment.html>