[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday
E. Wayne Johnson
ewj at pigs.ag
Mon Aug 13 21:46:33 UTC 2018
A lot of issues and arguments disappear when one can deal in first
principles.
It is a problem in America that there are folks who believe that
2 + 2 = 3 for small values of 2. One can write about them in
National Geographic and they might be really good at something
not requiring good math.
Nazis are bad because they built Volkswagens, limited access high speed
roadways, and rockets.
Fascists are bad because Pareto, Amaroso, and Gini were evil Italian
economists
and mathematicians to boot.
White supremacists are bad because it is obvious that non-whites are better
at many things not just sports.
If Nazis are bad because of X and Fascists are bad because of Y and
White supremacists are bad because of Z, then one should talk about
X, Y, and Z not Nazis, Fascists, etc., if one is really interested in
discouraging
what is bad and promoting what is good.
First principles is not bipartisan, it is non-partisan
because it transcends partisanism.
I know, I know... "first principles" is offensive to those
who don't believe in first principles.
Karen Aram wrote:
>>> You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former
>>> Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our
>>> problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP,
>>> and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the
>>> illusion of "we are better than that.”
>>
>> Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t
>> legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and
>> inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we
>> will not have any change in these conditions.
>
>> Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate
>> or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons,
>> given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop.
>>
>> It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is
>> now referred to as the “ left.”
>
>
>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag
>> <mailto:ewj at pigs.ag>> wrote:
>>
>> I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the
>> Bill of Rights or freedom of expression.
>> They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of
>> money and human lives it represents.
>>
>> I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than
>> is the KKK.
>> I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an
>> impact.
>>
>> The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK.
>> If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what
>> the KKK is doing.
>>
>> White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and
>> it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to
>> not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations.
>>
>> I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the
>> Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about
>> Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion
>> that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly
>> understood.
>> It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening
>> America?
>>
>> I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass.
>>
>>
>> Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote:
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks
>>> after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural.
>>> Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs.
>>>
>>> As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements
>>> by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After
>>> four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American
>>> people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said
>>> at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72”
>>> that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and
>>> all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it
>>> was no longer an issue.
>>>
>>> When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote.
>>>
>>> Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people
>>> giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW
>>> Bush, people just gave up.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36,bjornsona at ameritech.net
>>>> <mailto:bjornsona at ameritech.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the
>>>> draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd
>>>> largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 &
>>>> North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in
>>>> London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with
>>>> a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their
>>>> Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when
>>>> shopping.
>>>> It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire.
>>>>
>>>> /Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone/
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original message------
>>>> *From:*C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss
>>>> *Date:*Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM
>>>> *To:*Karen Aram;
>>>> *Cc:*peace;Peace Discuss;
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in
>>>> DC Yesterday
>>>>
>>>> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the
>>>> revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers
>>>> were no longer reliable.
>>>>
>>>> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as
>>>> “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a
>>>> result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness.
>>>>
>>>> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of
>>>> the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He
>>>> effectively resigned.
>>>>
>>>> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret
>>>> plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his
>>>> Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.”
>>>>
>>>> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars
>>>> in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it
>>>> probably follow a similar pattern.
>>>>
>>>> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’
>>>> disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a
>>>> Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war
>>>> provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did.
>>>>
>>>> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement
>>>> had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming,
>>>> “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any
>>>> burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to
>>>> assure the survival and the success of liberty”!
>>>>
>>>> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to
>>>>>> building a movement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization
>>>>>> in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most
>>>>>> Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not
>>>>>> killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you
>>>>>> want but the fact is:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of
>>>>>> Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the
>>>>>> Democrats.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years
>>>>>> is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I
>>>>>> was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever
>>>>>> protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is
>>>>>> precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was
>>>>>> extremely difficult to get the numbers.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the
>>>>>> streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted
>>>>>> by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the
>>>>>> cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to
>>>>>> educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others
>>>>>> on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits
>>>>>> us, isn’t getting us anywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace
>>>>>>> <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ANSWER Coalition
>>>>>>> <http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=1>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Karen,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By
>>>>>>> 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park
>>>>>>> chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many
>>>>>>> communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and
>>>>>>> old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought
>>>>>>> they could come and rally in front of the White House, because
>>>>>>> they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that
>>>>>>> residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police
>>>>>>> spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security
>>>>>>> escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on
>>>>>>> the metro and provided police vans to take them from the
>>>>>>> Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the
>>>>>>> coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a
>>>>>>> huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands
>>>>>>> of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this
>>>>>>> success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most
>>>>>>> importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making
>>>>>>> this new movement even stronger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In solidarity,
>>>>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition
>>>>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/
>>>>>>> <http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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