[Peace-discuss] retraction
ewj at pigs.ag
ewj at pigs.ag
Sat Jul 28 23:06:30 UTC 2018
>...studies past peace-movement
> tactics in order to beat them, rather like super bacteria mutating to
> overcome antibiotics.
It is an interesting analogy.
"super bacteria" don't "study"...
There is no real intelligence in terms of a plan forward.
There is a sort of random mutation rate and a throwing of spaghetti until some sticks to the wall.
Excessive use and illogical use of antibiotics can promote resistance.
Under-dosing also can produce resistance.
Pursuit of problems that are not problems also induces resistance.
Sure, it is a great thing to consider solving injustices around the world,
but the US of A has got serious problems at home and it is
stupid to give the children's meat to the dogs and it
is evil to usurp authority at a long distance.
Shut down the war machine.
The money is needed for other things.
Let the people keep more of their own income and
provide a stipend to every man woman and child.
They won't be able to piss so much money away overseas
if they need it at home.
> -------Original Message-------
> From: bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> To: Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction
> Sent: Jul 29 '18 06:32
>
>
>
> Thinking the problem cannot be solved at the level on which it was
> created. So frustrating to keep doing the same thing and it doesn't
> work. The American Republicrat War Party studies past peace-movement
> tactics in order to beat them, rather like super bacteria mutating to
> overcome antibiotics.
>
> The only thing that vibrates higher than fear is love.
>
> _Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone_
>
> ------ Original message------
> FROM: Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss
>
> DATE: Sat, Jul 28, 2018 3:42 PM
> TO: Robert Naiman;C G Estabrook;
> CC: Peace-discuss List;
> SUBJECT:Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction
>
> Too bad about Lee & Khanna. But can't a single voice (or a few) be
> dismissed as a malcontent, and irrelevant? (Look what was done to Ron
> Paul.)
>
> There wasn't a lone voice in Congress in 1968 regarding Vietnam (or
> later Cambodia). There was a national mood, in Congress, and out of
> it, that something was very wrong. The sort of thing Bernie Sanders
> should be saying now.
>
> Fifty years ago that was led by student protest. Universities have
> had two generations to scotch that, and they've been successful. They
> were taken by surprise in the '60s, and they won't let that happen
> again. (Cue Steve Salaita.)
>
> Perhaps BLM et al. can be the new catalyst. Black Agenda Report
> consistently exposes the warmongering, even of a black president &
> Congressional caucus. BAR is not misled by identity politics, which
> the Democrats particularly want to use to distract from their neolib &
> neocon policies - more war and more inequality.
>
> In regard to the current US wars, we surely need people who follow
> Rosa Luxemburg’s advice, from a century ago: “The most
> revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is
> happening.”
>
> --CGE
>
> -------------------------
>
> FROM: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on
> behalf of Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss
> [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net]
> SENT: Saturday, July 28, 2018 3:02 PM
> TO: C G Estabrook
> CC: Peace-discuss List
> SUBJECT: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction
>
> I don't know. I would like to think that we can push for the
> introduction in the House and Senate when they return in September of
> bills invoking the War Powers Resolution to force floor votes on
> ending U.S. participation in the Yemen war. I think we could win a
> floor vote in the House, and I think that would be a big deal. Maybe
> we could even win a floor vote in the Senate, and that would be an
> even bigger deal. But I am worried that we won't be able to build
> enough pressure to make this happen, given the dominant mood in
> Washington now that the only things that people should care about are
> things that help one team or the other in election mobilization.
>
> But one thing I am pretty sure of is that we would much be better off
> now if we had replaced Dennis Kucinich in the House as an anti-war
> champion, a leader of anti-war efforts, on the Democratic side when he
> left DC in 2012. And that, belatedly, we should try to figure out who
> the new Dennis Kucinich can be. I'm sure it's not Barbara Lee. I'm
> sure it's not Ro Khanna. But who it is I don't yet know.
>
> I'm trying to write something about this...
>
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>
> (202) 448-2898 x1
>
> On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 2:27 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
> > What are effective ways now to demand Congress end that war? And the
> > others?
> >
> > The US is making war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan,
> > Somalia, and of course Syria, as well as Yemen. Thousands of U.S.
> > troops are killing people in these countries, and more than a
> > quarter of a million are stationed in a thousand US bases on foreign
> > soil, most of them ringing Russia and China. The 70,000-members of
> > the U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ are active in no less than
> > three-quarters of the countries of the world. Their activities
> > include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder.
> >
> > But the US government - cannier now than 50 years ago - has actively
> > avoided the rise of popular outrage. By 1969 about 70% of the public
> > had come to regard the war in Vietnam as “fundamentally wrong and
> > immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact
> > of student protest on general consciousness. And that mass
> > opposition compelled the business community and then the government
> > to stop the escalation of the war.
> >
> > But the propaganda shield is more sophisticated now, from Russiagate
> > to Trump Derangement Syndrome.
> >
> > What Is To Be Done? —CGE
> >
> >> On Jul 28, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss
> >> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I wouldn't have argued with Carl so strongly about the proposition
> >> that the world would be better off or worse off if Dems take the
> >> House if I had not believed at the time that Dems would help us
> >> end the U.S.-Saudi war in Yemen. I agree with him completely about
> >> the horrible ick of Dems becoming the anti-Russia party. I was
> >> quite certain that was outweighed by the possibility of ending the
> >> war in Yemen, which has pushed millions of human beings to the
> >> edge of starvation, and will push ten million more to the edge of
> >> starvation by the end of the year if it is not stopped.
> >>
> >> I don't believe that anymore. I don't believe anymore that Dems
> >> are going to help us end the war in Yemen. I believed that because
> >> that's what I was told by people whom I had good reason to trust.
> >> But they reneged. So now that's an open question for me; maybe
> >> they will, maybe they won't, but I have no basis for believing
> >> that they will.
> >>
> >> Thus, I don't care anymore if Dems take the House.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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