[Peace-discuss] moderator help

[Estabrook, Carl G]

For a liberal anti-war group, AWARE has a somewhat embarrassing history on 'what can't be said.' Good liberals in the group have taken some remarkably anti-free speech positions.

The paramount example occurred more than a dozen years ago, when AWARE's weekly meetings regularly attracted dozens of participants. But a visit to C-U by Barak Obama (then Illinois' junior senator) and objections from some AWAREists to this mendacious war-apologist and seeming critic prompted anguished cries from some other AWARE members.

I wrote at the time that several AWAREists "decided that leafleting Obama’s rally [with antiwar material] had been 'rude' and that the leaflet 'demonized' him. They took the uncomfortable position that AWARE needed to treat black politicians differently from white politicians." <https://www.counterpunch.org/2005/09/29/illinois-anti-warriors-and-the-attractive-senator/>.

The resulting dispute caused a fracture from which AWARE never recovered. It's hard to say that a more complete discussion of the matter would have been a mistake, as the Obama campaign hoovered up the antiwar movement and produced the first US president to be at war throughout two presidential terms.

And it's hard to see how censoring/suppressing discussion on anti-war email lists will help to avoid similar disturbing - and deadly - mistakes. --CGE


________________________________
From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 9:32 AM
To: C G Estabrook; Stuart Levy
Cc: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] moderator help

It seems your central point has been made and listened to several times over, Carl and Wayne.  Some of us agree; some disagree. I vote we skip bringing out the torn & ratty old arguments of censorship, free speech, insults, yada, when it is clear who seems to have the most free speech in this group.

Your communication skills are many and varied and respected here. As I say constantly, probably 98% of Americans want the same things: a good education, job, healthcare, clean air, food, land, water, security. For any anti-war or pro-Americans movement to succeed, we mustbfocus on our common goals of course. Splitting up constituencies was the ultimate cause of the 60s Civil Rights Movement's downfall. Womyn's rights only got so far, black womyn's rights less far, and marijuana was criminalized. Etc.

Are you ignoring the move to vote on staying on anti-war topics only, having a group meeting to discuss it, or starting a different discussion group?

Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

------ Original message------
From: C G Estabrook
Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 8:54 AM
To: Stuart Levy;
Cc: E. Wayne Johnson;bjornsona at ameritech.net<mailto:;bjornsona at ameritech.net>;C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss;kmedina67;
Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] moderator help

Do you intend to censor posts to the <peace-dscuss> email list, as you do to the <peace> email list, Stuart?

Censorship is a peculiar practice for a liberal, isn’t it?

“If you don’t believe I free speech for views you despise, you don’t believe in it at all.”  —Noam Chomsky


On Jul 30, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Lots of right arguments go unheard, and many wrong ones flourish, or else why would the US still be supporting the bombardment of Yemen?

Look, I signed up for AWARE as an anti-war group.   I go with David and Ann and Karen to work the farmer's market twice a month, and to the monthly demonstrations, to express and work for opposition to US participation in wars around the world.   I've done that and other things for many years, as many of you know who have been doing it beside me.

I'm here on this list and others for discussion of opposition to war and what we can do about it.

I didn't sign up to AWARE, and neither did the several people who joined this list just last weekend, to join an anti-abortion (and-oh-by-the-way-never-mind-what-happens-to-the-mothers) group.

Anyone here who wishes to start or join such a group, run a market presence, hold demonstrations, carry on discussions, is welcome to.   But not on this list, please.

    Stuart

On 07/30/2018 09:38 AM, E. Wayne Johnson via Peace-discuss wrote:
If you are right, then the power of your argument should be sufficient
to squelch those who oppose your ideas, and you ought not need to appeal to
a higher (Levitical) authority for narrowing of the limits of debate.

And when you are wrong, to admit the fault, delete the offending code, and reboot.

bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss wrote:
Dear Moderator :)  What is the  agreement for what people are allowed to publish here? I hate to lose subscribers because we go off topic. (Guilty, I know).

Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

------ Original message------
From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss
Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2018 8:57 AM
To: kmedina67;
Cc: Peace-discuss;
Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] Stop dividing AntiWar

A paraphrase:

"Until the conditions for Americans in the world (beset by terrorists) change, access to safe drone assassinations needs to be an option, if you value the life of Americans.

"If you don't value the life of Americans, then criminalize them."

On Jul 29, 2018, at 12:59 AM, kmedina67 via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Until the conditions for women change, access to safe abortion needs to be an option, if you value the life of the woman.

If you don't value the life of the woman,  then criminalize her.

- Karen Medina
"The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain

_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss




_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss





_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss


_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20180730/812667d3/attachment-0001.html>