[Peace-discuss] ACLU liberals

Sat Nov 20 13:47:51 CST 2010

The ACLU with its basic commitment to free speech, supported the SC decision on 
Citizens' United.

On 11/20/10 1:41 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>  I'm guessing many if not most on this list are both members of the
>  ACLU and also in agreement about Israel-Palestine, Afghanistan,
>  Citizens' United, choice, unemployment benefits, tax breaks for the
>  wealthy, unions, etc etc etc... --Jenifer
>
>  --- On *Sat, 11/20/10, David Green /<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>  From: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> Subject: Re:
>  [Peace-discuss] ACLU liberals To: "Jenifer Cartwright"
>  <jencart13 at yahoo.com> Cc: "Peace Discuss"
>  <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010,
>  11:11 AM
>
>  "many of its members are with us"
>
>  How so?
>
>  ------------------------- *From:* Jenifer Cartwright
>  <jencart13 at yahoo.com> *To:* Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>;
>  David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> *Cc:* Peace Discuss
>  <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> *Sent:* Sat, November 20, 2010
>  10:27:57 AM *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] ACLU liberals
>
>  The ACLU's function is to protect civil liberties, and that's a good
>  thing -- it often means that good guys get their day in court and
>  win. But it also protects the rights of dreadful people to say and do
>  dreadful things when the law's on their side. The ACLU doesn't take a
>  stand on political issues unless rights are violated, and it isn't a
>  peace organization, altho' many of its members are with us, just as
>  many of our members support the ACLU. --Jenifer
>
>  --- On *Sat, 11/20/10, David Green /<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>  From: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> Subject: Re:
>  [Peace-discuss] ACLU liberals To: "Morton K. Brussel"
>  <brussel at illinois.edu> Cc: "Peace Discuss"
>  <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010,
>  9:35 AM
>
>  Mort, doesn't it bother you that a prominent member of the local
>  member of the ACLU goes out of his way to make an ad hominem attack
>  on someone he doesn't happen to like (primarily because of my support
>  for the Palestinians) for expressing opposition to both war and video
>  games about them, boldly asserting that the DI should not print my
>  letters (of which it has printed two in just over two months)? Isn't
>  the irony and hypocrisy overwhelming enough for you? Exactly what
>  would Gehrig have to do to get you to focus your attention on his
>  nastiness, stupidity, and evasiveness, rather than my very
>  appropriate curiosity about the attraction of the ACLU for someone
>  like him?
>
>  ------------------------- *From:* Morton K. Brussel
>  <brussel at illinois.edu> *To:* David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>  *Cc:* naiman.uiuc at gmail.com; Peace Discuss
>  <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> *Sent:* Fri, November 19, 2010
>  9:59:57 PM *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] ACLU liberals
>
>  Sorry, David, but you have gone off the deep end in your criticism of
>  the ACLU (or virtually any organization) because a member thereof may
>  be malign in your opinion. Your bitterness is off-putting, not in
>  your very useful letter to the DI, but in your attack on the ACLU
>  (which I for one support for its not infrequent successful efforts to
>  defend civil liberties and to broady publicize violations of same).
>  Bob makes the point well. --mkb
>
>
>  On Nov 19, 2010, at 4:02 PM, David Green wrote:
>
> > Where's the presence of the local ACLU in the local media regarding
> > criticism of Obama's policies?
> >
> > ------------------------- *From:* Robert Naiman
> > <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> *To:* David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
> > *Cc:* Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> *Sent:* Fri,
> > November 19, 2010 3:20:23 PM *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] ACLU
> > liberals
> >
> > I object to your guilt-by-association. If you want to slam one
> > person with whom you have an issue, that's one thing. It's another
> > thing to slam an organization, based on your interaction with one
> > individual who is in the organization.
> >
> > If you follow what the national ACLU has been putting out on the
> > policies of the Obama Administration, on detention, on
> > assassination, on military commissions, on accountability for
> > torture, etc. I think one would be hard pressed to argue that they
> > have been pulling their punches.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:07 PM, David Green
> > <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> The ACLU stands for one of many possible fundamental principles.
> >> Too many of its members think that that is the only one worth
> >> standing for, and wish to cover themselves with glory for doing
> >> so. It's become a pretty transparent business, and Gehrig's
> >> behavior exposes one aspect of that--he's an overt racist vis a
> >> vis the Palestinians, and he's especially annoyed that I showed
> >> him to be a liar regarding the death of Rachel Corrie. Bob, I
> >> would think that that would concern you regarding the credibility
> >> of the ACLU, as well as the substantive issue I've raised in my
> >> letter; likely I would think wrong. Nothing about liberals seems
> >> to bother you.
> >>
> >> DG ________________________________ From: Robert Naiman
> >> <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> To: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
> >> Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Sent: Fri,
> >> November 19, 2010 12:14:54 PM Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] ACLU
> >> liberals
> >>
> >> Is the ACLU responsible for what David Gehrig writes in letters
> >> to the DI? When he volunteered to sit at the table, should they
> >> have said: now, not just anyone can sit at this table. What kind
> >> of letters do you plan to write to the DI?
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:03 PM, David Green
> >> <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> The last time I saw David Gehrig, he was manning the ACLU table
> >>> at the Farmers Market. I hear that he has resigned from the
> >>> Urbana City Council. Here's his comment in response to my DI
> >>> letter:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
http://www.dailyillini.com/opinions/letters-to-the-editor/2010/11/17/exploitation-of-war-for-fun-profit-disturbing#comments-title
> >
> >>>
> >
> >>>
> >>> "Is the Daily Illini really so hard up for letters that it must
> >>> print near-weekly squashrot from the fringe flake David Green?
> >>> Has he absolutely no idea of how he comes across? I've never
> >>> seen anyone so brilliantly incarnate every facet of the
> >>> far-right parody of what a dour, smug,
> >>> holds-the-copyright-on-sanctimonious leftist is like. Is he
> >>> some kind of counter-Colbert, except that nobody's in on the
> >>> joke?"

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